Right on Todd and Osmosis
And by the way Michael Waltrip finished second Sunday! I don’t even need to add a comment to that!!!
Todd,
I stand behind what I said about WKA stand-outs. Period. And yes, I will take you bet and your money on logan. How much can you afford to lose$?
Logan Ruffin. He is NOT a WKA standout. He has never won a wka race or even been on the podium. He never even raced gokarts. He ran quater migjets. And he wasn’t a stand-out there either. The motor he ran at Lakeland was built to the hilt. 100 more hp than the rest of the field. Just like the motor that was in Jason Boyd’s car at NSS last year. Also you could here the traction control. Another big no no. That kid shouldn’t even be in a car until he wins a few races in something else.
Your example 1 was a wash lets try example 2.
When I said WKA stand-out I should have said WKA dirt or asphult stand-out. I under stand that WKA sprint series would do you no good when moving up to a lm. But than again, who in their right mind would have though I was talking about road coarse racing? That is where Scott Speed came from. He was a stand-out in that series and it did what it was suposed to. It move him up to from karting to F1. For him never driving LTO cars with fender he is doing great. He already has a win and is contending every week. And oh ya Todd, he has already made more money in nascar up til now than most will in their life time. All from being a karting stand-out. Period. He got to the highest lever of motorsports in the world from winning in karts. Not the Masda series, not Indy cars or the lower open wheel classes. Just KARTS. Period. Todd, do you think that spending a single season in Super / Street Stock would have helped his career? I don’t. It would have killed it.
Lets look at example 3
A.J. is a prime example of a WKA stand-out that can go from karting to modifieds. I never said that gives you a free pass to nascar. A.J. is in the same boat as my son. Plenty of talant and ability and no money. Unlike Logan who’s parents has millions of dollars but he lacks the experiance, talant, and ability. If A.J. would have moved up sooner he would of had a better chance at making the big time.
Now. I listed 5 examples that compair lm’s to karts. Nobody has disputed one of them. We already have comparisons. So the statement thar there are NO comparisons was wrong. I was hoping that somebody could give me some examples of things that happen to my son while racing his LM that he hasn’t already experianced in his kart. A lot of you guys say that there is no comparison between the two and I say they are not that much different.
I said I wouldn’t but…
Mr. South
The examples you give could just as easily be comparitive of a street stock to a LM or a paddle boat to an offshore racer. No one (at least me) has said there isn’t a skill level and the opportunity to learn what it would take to make a kart go around the corner faster than the next guy. I’m sure it’s super competitive and can be very intense. There are the obvious similarities which I have already mentioned but so much that is not even in the same ballpark. Full protective cage and complete body. Fully independent front suspension. Do you run a three link rear with a panhard bar? Maybe truck arms? How are those comparitive to a live axle with a sprocket and chain? Power(or not) rack and pinion steering. A buttload of highly flammable racing fuel a few feet behind you. ETC ETC ETC…
LAST TIME I WILL STATE THIS:
It’s only my opinion but I just do not feel a karting background automatically gives you the knowledge and skills needed to jump directly into a Late Model. I’ll go ahead and call them Super Late Models (even though I hate that stupid inclusion of the last 10 years.) Especially so if said driver is under the age of 16. He just has no appreciation for the size and power of the vehicle, how it operates and what happens when two or more of those vehicles come in close contact with one another. Regardless of the top speed.
That’s all. Not dissing your boy’s career in the karts. Applauding it, actually, as something he should be proud of (as should you). I am equally positive he will do well in a Late Model someday. I just think he would have been better off taking his talent and experience garnered in the karts to a street stock class where he could have gotten an education in areas such as how to install, adjust and OPERATE a racecar(let alone a vehicle) with a clutch. Or figured out how to get a stock four-link rear suspension to “rotate thru the turns” without changing the stock OEM locations of the arms. Or learned to set up a third member in a 10.5" rearend using a homebuilt benchdog. He may have gotten the chance to spend an evening learning about pinion angles and rear axle wrap up had he built a car with a leaf spring suspension. Maybe he would have seen how he could keep the water temps down by fabricating a makeshift airbox to force more air through a big radiator that he never had to worry about before. Of course then there is being able to rub on a fender or two without the worry of jumping a tire and flying into the hay bales. And the sense of safety that comes with having a full cage around you which may or may not give him the nerve to make that outside pass without fear of a headon impact throwing him up and out of the kart. He would have also gotten the respect and admiration that comes with spanking the competition thus earning the right to advance to the next level.
There’s more stuff I could go on about but now that I’ve written it, I doubt you’ll really try to see what I’m talking about.
Oh well. I’m really gonna try and stop responding about this anymore.
Good luck with all your son’s racing endeavors.
OJ,
I never said Dustin went from karts to LM’s. That is just you and others trying to read between the lines and diesect everything I say. My son raced Fastruck kids for a year and a half. They are street stocks. Streetstocks don’t have clutchs. He has built many rearends for his race truck. He knows alot more than you think pinion and trailing angles also. He tought his self how to weld. He hangs his own bodys and does his own fabricating. He changes his gears and jetting. There isn’t anything that I can do on his car that he can’t do him self. I have a policy around here. If he is not here working on the car that nobody works on the car. He is a car chief now for the team he works at and he knows everything about the Porshe’s he chiefs on also. He is still 17. He has a car in the Paul Revear race this week.
Like I said. This wasn’t about Dustin. You said that there is no comparison between a kart and a LM and I said there is. Now you are back steping and saying that there is a few comparisons. Where are you going to end up, NOT comparible or some comparisons?
LAST TIME I WILL STATE THIS:
It’s only my opinion but I just do not feel a karting background automatically gives you the knowledge and skills needed to jump directly into a Late Model.Again, OJ trying to twist words around to make his self sound good. I never said a karting background, I said WKA stand-outs and I stand by it. Peroid.
One more thing. when I said, "His kart has 56hp and is 365lbs with the driver. He recently set a new track record at Fruitland Part. 10.71 seconds. You don’t have time to blink. It is not your yard kart. It has more hp per lb than his ASA car and way harder to set up." I was trying to make a point about how fast 4 corners and 2 straights and 1/5 mile goes by. But you decided to take out a personal attack on my son saying what he had accomplished was a joke. That record was 10 yr old. I don’t think you could get the toilet paper off the role and wipe your ass in 10.71 seconds. If you would like I will start on YOUR kid now.
I am equally positive he will do well in a Late Model someday. This is with a 16 yr old car, 1 crew member(me), and a $1500 a race budget. Someday came a long time ago. Most of these teams have 2 new cars, big rigs, 10 or more crew members and $4000-$8000 a race.
Jupiter, Florida rookie title contender, 17-year-old Dustin Dunn was the fastest of the first Practice Session for the Watermelon Bowl 100. (Chuck Gonzalez Photo)
Practice Session One (1) Results
- 59 Dustin Dunn-R 16.468,87.442 MPH
- 86 Jimmy Lang 16.492
- 75 David Odell-R 16.510
- 88 Justin Larson-R 16.581
- 15 Colt James 16.584
- 57 Chad Pierce-R 16.606
- 05 Gene Kirila-R 16.633
- 08 Beau Slocumb 16.644
- 3 Blake Lehr-R 16.773
- 133 Casey Caudill-R 16.913
- 188 Will Hannah-R 16.962
- 70 Jeremy Gerstner 16.990
- 78 John Gerstner-R 17.007
- 93 Rob Partelo 17.047
- 81 Billy Chancy-R 17.174
- 20 Kyle Eastham-R 17.427
- 1 Roger Delp-R NO TIME
- 24 Michael Pilla-R NO TIME
- 711 Max Gresham-R NO TIME
2008 ASA Late Model Series Southern Division Presented by GM Performance Parts Points Standings
AFTER Florida 100 Presented by Crane Cams (RAINED OUT)
New Smyrna (FL) Speedway
Saturday, June 21, 2008
Pos. Car #/Driver?-Points
- 86 Jimmy Lang (3) 591
- 15 Colt James 529
- 75 David Odell-R 500
- 59 Dustin Dunn-R 481
- 3 Blake Lehr-R 475
- 88 Justin Larson-R 472
- 70 Jeremy Gerstner 460
- 57 Chad Pierce-R 456
- 24 Michael Pilla-R 389
- 93 Rob Partelo 380
- 78 John Gerstner-R 372
- 20 Kyle Eastham-R 370
- 133 Casey Caudill-R 365
- 188 Will Hannah-R 348
- 1 Roger Delp-R 288
- 05 Gene Kirila-R 265
- 711 Max Gresham-R 264
- 026 Travis Cope 223
- 08 Jason Taghikhani 192
- 08 Beau Slocumb 183
- 126 Bubba Pollard-R 170
- 35 B.J. Holley-R 128
- 81 Billy Chancy-R 124
- 62 Travis Wilson 120
- 97 Patrick Staropoli-R 117
- 8 Chris Dilbeck-R 113
- 19 Chris Gillespie-R 112
- 66 Jody Knowles-R 100
- 166 Casey Neal-R 97
- 11 Austin Kirkpatrick-R 0
- 17 A.J. Fulgenzi-R 0
- 26 Jessica Murphy-R 0
- 28 Sean Bass 0
- 31 Brian Blum 0
- 60 Chad Akins-R 0
- 64 Griffin McGrath 0
- 89 Beau Browning-R 0
- 93 Brandon Johnson 0
R=Rookie of the Year Contender
2008 Rookie of the Year Points Standings (TOP 5)
Pos.?-Car #/Driver?-Points
- 75 David Odell 500
- 59 Dustin Dunn 481
- 3 Blake Lehr 475
- 88 Justin Larson 472
- 57 Chad Pierce 456
Scott Speed came from … It move him up to from karting to F1 … He got to the highest lever of motorsports in the world from winning in karts. Not the Masda series, not Indy cars or the lower open wheel classes.
bzzzzt.
please try again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Speed
"[I]He moved up to Formula series in 2001, competing in US Formula Russell and becoming champion. He drove in both the US Barber Formula Dodge and US Star Mazda Series followed in 2002, although he failed to win either title, and in 2003 the American drove for the ADR team in British Formula Three after winning the Red Bull Driver Search programme. …
2004 saw two championship titles for Speed, though, with him first winning in Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup and later German Formula Renault. … His performances resulted in a drive in the inaugural season of GP2 Series for 2005, as number two for the iSport team to Can Artam. Speed was later promoted to first driver for the team, and ended the season third place in the driver championship standings behind Nico Rosberg and Heikki Kovalainen.
At the end of 2005, Speed drove the first three races of the new A1 Grand Prix series for A1 Team USA, achieving a best result of fourth in the Feature Race of the 2005-06 A1 Grand Prix of Nations, Portugal[/I]"
not only did Speed compete in the ( a ) Mazda series he also competed in practically every other prep series that was available to him all the way up to F1. at least 8 in all.
there was no “jump” from “karts to F1”. there wasn’t even a “jump” from karting to the Late Model equivalent. he went through the Dodge, Mazda and Renault spec series. sounds to me like he did it right.
tell ya what, i’ll trade you Scott Speed for Logan Ruffin … although i’m probably letting you off easy on the deal. 1/4’s would be close to equivalent to karts. a lot closer on all of your “examples” than a Late Model.
My son raced Fastruck kids for a year and a half.
you’re avoiding the point again.
i don’t know that anyone here is impressed by anybody in the Quick Kids series. dominating them is what he has to do if he’s going to have a chance of impressing anybody anywhere. did he do this? (which brings up the question “why is it so hard to find FASCAR Tour historical records”? i went looking and i can’t even find a season points list for 2007 much less any important information for earlier years. considering FASCAR is trying to push Quick Kids as a stopping, errr, stepping stone to bigger and better things you’d think they’d have all that info up to aid with marketing the chillins. but WTH, ASALMS doesn’t appear to be any better )
OTOH, your son’s experience is a specific argument against the idea of leapfrogging from karts to Late Models … otherwise, that’s what you’d have had him do.
i also went to the ASA web site. his points showing thus far is pretty nice but with only 3 races in so far there’s going to be huge variations in points standings after each race. also, don’t dig too deeply into his other numbers.
wow. 25 of the 38 ( 12 of the top 17 ) competing drivers are rookies this year. is there anybody in the series that would qualify as a “wiley veteran”? yeah, i know Blake Lehr and Chad Pierce and others aren’t exactly chopped liver but this series looks like a revolving door.
Logan Ruffin … shouldn’t even be in a car until he wins a few races in something else.
well hey, we agree on something. :ernaehrung004:
now what can we do to clean up NASCOR?
Most of these teams have 2 new cars, big rigs, 10 or more crew members and $4000-$8000 a race.
it sucks playing with boys who are going to spend you into the dirt if they can, don’t it?
just think, $1500 a race and you could probably dominate in SSS.
Like I said. This wasn’t about Dustin.
[shrugs]
until you made it about Dustin, that is.
you want to make him the example upon which your argument hangs, then the argument becomes about him and his results. you don’t want him to be involved in it, bring up somebody else.
I never said Dustin went from karts to LM’s. That is just you and others trying to read between the lines and diesect everything I say.
maybe because you keep saying karting guys are ready for LM’s and higher ( F1? yah, i don’t think so )? the “stand out” qualifier is a given. we don’t expect even a rich mama’s boy who’s spent his entire karting career finishing 30th out of 25 ( that’s a joke, yes ) to sucker mama into paying for a 200 thousand dollar+ Late Model effort.
And by the way Michael Waltrip finished second Sunday! I don’t even need to add a comment to that!
rainouts and / or fuel mileage gambles will give you some strange results. it’s not something you’d want to try and build a career around.
at least Kurt Busch has enough class not to be proud of it.
Scott Speed won his last karting championship in 2001. He also won the Stars of Karting twice. I 2002 Scott won the Red Bull Drivers Search which insured him a F1 ride. Red Bull Driver Search was an American scheme run in parallel with Red Bull Junior Team. Its aim was “Searching for the future American F1 Champion”. Another goal was to create “the first ever All-American Formula 1 team.” There has been one clear star of Red Bull Driver Search: Scott Speed.
You can look at it how ever you want. All’s I know is that Scott went from racing karts in "01 to a winning garenteed F1 ride in "02. Kinda looks like he went from karting to F1 to me.
Red Bull had him driving in some more open wheel stuff for the next few years while they built their own F1 team. When it was built Scott drove the car.
Kind of like my little buddy Trevor Bayne going from karting to Nascar. You may not see it that way. He signed with DEI while racing karts. Sure they didn’t put him right in a Nascar. They ran him in Hooters, now Bush East, next Craftman Truck, than Nationwide, and then Cup.
Again, You can look at the glass how ever you want to. I say he went from karts to cup. He had a contract just like Scott Speed did.
Scott got to the higest level of motorsports in the world by winning in karts and Trevor got to Nascar by winning in karts. Peroid.
I’m not the one missing the point here. Does anybody on here really think that if Scott or Trevor never raced a kart that they would be where they are today. I think not.
FYI. Trevor went straight from a kart to a Hooters cup car. Period
Not much of a point you’re making there. Just about every modern day F1 driver started in karts, that’s no secret. The only difference about Scott Speed is that he won over the greatest open wheel sugar daddy of them all - Red Bull.
And Red Bull didn’t build their own F1 teams, Red Bull bought Jaguar and Minardi. And pretty much bought Minardi to be the “junior” Red Bull team for Scott Speed and Vitantonio Liuzzi.
Jack,
My point was and has alway’s been that racing a kart is comparible with a LM. I say that there are many comparisons and there are a few that said that there is NO comparison at all. It is my opinion. Do you think there is NO comparison.
Are you going to Daytona? I just got off the phone with my son and he said that the Nationwide garage is full. He is getting ready for the race tomorrow. Orbit has Boris Said in the car for the Paul Revere race. He is a trip. I will be working for him doing tires tomorrow.
Sadly, no Paul Revere or Clyde Hart Memorial for me this year. Something about if I chose a race over my son’s first 4th of July fireworks I’d be a bad father or something…