There was a horrid bus accident at DSS this weekend. The driver named Greg had serious injuries and was airlifted to a hospital… John wasted no time implementing new rules and offering help so that this doesnt happen again… WTG John… shows you DO care about your drivers. I believe that every track that runs bus races should follow suit…Thanks!
carolwicks aka OZ
Posted - 06/30/2008 : 15:56:47
New rules for buses
4 point cage a must min 3 door bars drivers side
2 door bars pass side
halo, dash bar’s 2 bars runing to radiator support and frame
with 2 diognal bars to radiator support. We will be calling everyone to let them know and if you have any questions please call me.
As allways thanks to all the drivers and fans that make this possible.
If we need a night together at the track to work on buses I will be there for you.
I hate to rain on Sarppricones parade here but a cage built from 1 3/4 tubing will be like holding a grocery bag over your head in a down pour. It might stop a few drops but you are still going to get wet. The cage he is talking about will do little to stop the same results from happening again.
First the drivers should be moved back about 6 feet.
Then build the cage. Minimum 2 inch diameter tubing.
And this is from someone who drove a school bus up a wall through a fence and rolled it onto the track. In the process removing the front axle and all the front sheetmetal.
All I was wearing was the stock lap belt and was doing in excess of 50 mph when it happened.
[QUOTE=ovalracer44;11274]I hate to rain on Sarppricones parade here but a cage built from 1 3/4 tubing will be like holding a grocery bag over your head in a down pour. It might stop a few drops but you are still going to get wet. The cage he is talking about will do little to stop the same results from happening again.
First the drivers should be moved back about 6 feet.
Then build the cage. Minimum 2 inch diameter tubing.
And this is from someone who drove a school bus up a wall through a fence and rolled it onto the track. In the process removing the front axle and all the front sheetmetal.
All I was wearing was the stock lap belt and was doing in excess of 50 mph when it happened.[/QUOTE]
2 inch tubing even at .120 wall thickness is still easier to bend/dent/kink than 1 3/4 .095. The strongest tubing size is 1 5/8 .120 that is why NHRA mandates it in so many applications. I agree that moving the driver back is the best plan, by the looks of the damage moving them back about 2-3 feet would be a HUGE change in structural safety.
A school bus is the safest vehicle on the road and are built with a safety cage design in the main body. The problem lies in a front end collision the hit comes from a direction that the cage design does not protect.
I’d have to agree with that as well. I know OSW packs the stands for the bus races and I even know some guys that love racing them, but they’re just not built for racing and I don’t want to see someone else seriously injured or worse.
I do agree here. Racing something that weighs 10,000 lbs is probably not a wise choice. At 45 miles per hour it is hard to stop and can cause a whole lot of damage.
what is the ratio of bus races versus serious injuries. i only know of a couple . ( havent been to too many and dont know the statistics.)the tracks make back some of their money with these races…they draw HUGE crowds. i hate seeing anyone get injured or killed but the entire sport has deaths… should we stop all of them? this was such a tragdy but so are all the other deaths in all series of races. i think every track has had the unfortunate loss of life. CCMP just lost one in a TQ midget race. i remember one at eastbay a couple years ago, Dale Sr., the guy at NSS… each vehicle has a weak ness… with some it is simply a matter of the speed, with others the lack of safety features. i think if the busses are built with a safe cage for the driver, that should be enough to cut down the odds of a driver dying or suffering very serious injuries. someone mentioned moving the seat back further and putting in some frame work… that should help alot.
carolwicks aka OZ
What you dont see here Mrs. OZ is that a latemodel is 3 thousand pounds. A bus is 18 thousand pounds.
A simple equation shows what I mean
Force = Mass * Acceleration.
Latemodel at 100 Mph
Force = Mass (1,360Kg) * Acceleration (45.454 M/s)
Force = 61,818 Newtons
A full size bluebird school bus weighs 20,100 lbs with no passengers. Subtract 1,500 for seats and you have a 18,600 lb vehicle. This calculation will be for a bus at 40 mph.
Force = Mass (8,436 Kg) * Acceleration (18.181 M/s)
Force = 153,374 Newtons
At a mere 40 mph the bus is carrying a solid 2.5 times more force than the latemodel is at 100 mph.
Trust me, I know what can happen if one of these things climb the fence. I dang near drove one through the turn 2 fence at Hardeeville Motor speedway in 2004. The impact was enough to completely remove the front axle and broke a concrete K-rail (the type of concrete dividers you see on the interstate) in several pieces. Once the hood and grille was knocked off the battery ejected, went over another 18 foot fence, cleared a pit grandstands and flew another 50 feet. I have done some stupid things, and even come completely crazy things and a bus race is one thing I will never do again.
Photo of crash. I was hit on driver side by a bus driven by the track announcer. His throttle hung. He drove through the infield, hit me and shoved me into the wall wide open.
I was leading the race and was able to hold the bus at a steady 45 mph all the way around the track. I hit, climbed the wall and the fence. The track website at one time had a photo of the front of the bus at the top of the fence. Track workers parked just on the other side of the fence could see the underside of the bus. I was only wearing a lap belt sitting in the stock seat.
You guys are getting pissed at john for not making the roll bars thicker, yet you are the same people who have been driving without them for how long now? These roll cage rules state a minimum size to use, if you feel safer with more bars or thicker bars, there is nothing keeping you from putting them in there. In every modified that i have run in, I have added 1/4" thick steel plates on the drivers side roll bars. Was it mandatory? NO. But i did it because it made me feel more secure in the car. The rules he is implementing are just the minimum that you must run. You decide what is best for you.
if you argued with me you would be arguing with an unarmed person. you are the ones who have first hand knowledge. sometimes i start subjects leading on people who have the answers. it brings out alot of interesting people. i am a people person. but i do not have a tiny bit of technical knowledge. so you guys take over from here. thank you… we do not want to bury our drivers, nor do we want to see them suffer.
i thought john came right out in an effort to make bus races safer. That is a start…im sure more safety measures will follow…
carolwicks aka OZ
Im all for racing, heck I have even raced sailboats. I do think sometimes things need to be done to move forward toward safer motorsport. I know the busses have a thrill factor but I think there could be an opportunity to move forward and find a safer thrill.
How bout Dually truck races?
we had some huge tractors race at CCMP last year or maybe the year before. Holy smokes was that exciting… however there was hundreds of thousands of $$$$$ at stake… it was a gas.
carolwicks aka OZ
Might as well stir the pot some more , whens the last time a local track checked a drivers safety equipment?? Ive been to 4 , no ones looked a seatbelt dates, helmets , etc. The tracks are too afraid to chase a driver off, they might lose that god almighty $$$$ . When I raced out west , we were not allowed on the track until are car was inspected for safety, and are gear was checked .
do any of the tracks you race at check out your safety apparatus…actually, you are , or should be, responsible for your own safety equipment. but i am curious if any tracks do that… i have seen drivers in fire suits that wouldnt keep a hot match stick from burning them… i am aware the safety equipment is really expensive but so is hospital care…
i dont think the local tracks check helmets, fire suits etc. but i PRAY i am wrong…it seems the feet and legs would most likely be the first to be affected by a fire. also it seems that instictively one would use their hands to try to get away from a fire… so gloves and leg protection should be in mint condition… as for crashes without fires, it seems the most important piece on your body would be the helmet… this should be top of the line! depends on how much pain you can afford or tolerate i guess. please answer about track inspections… you do NOT have to say the name of the track…this question is not aimed at insulting anyone but to put forth an effort to save lives.
carolwicks aka OZ
Ocala checks. In fact, each car has to be safety certified in tech before it is allowed to race. That’s the rule, and as far as I can tell it is strictly enforced.
Hey Carol don’t know if you know me or not but I have been racing at charlotte for 15 years and drove everything from enduros to late models and not once has anyone checked my equipment. I do take care of that myself. The only track that has ever checked my equipment was at Bronson when I was racing in the gulfcoast modifieds. It is a good idea though for tracks to check all cars.
i am hoping most tracks check out the vehicles for safety equipment…however i was mostly thinking about body protection… fiesuits, helmets, etc… thank you for your post …
OZ
