After the scheduled one-day show at Volusia turned into a two-day show and a sunrise church service, my constant complaint about single car qualifying seems to be even more profound… Had the time trials been dropped, at least the show would have gotten over about the time midnight bowling ended in Deland.
My question is: Why qualify, then run heats too?? It’s a waste of time, especially with such a big field and support classes to boot…
I really think single car qualifying should be held only for races of 200 laps or more that are going to require pit stops anyway… In that case, I can see the point in letting the fast cars start up front. Even so, by the time the first set of pit stops is over, everything is usually pretty jumbled up and you have a really good, competitive race from that point on… The Hooters races at Lakeland are a good example… The first 100 laps or so are usually pretty boring. But when pits stops and pit strategies begin, that’s when the race gets interesting…
On the other hand, you see many 50-75-125 lap races become a parade even with the inversion… Plus, I’m sure most drivers hate the re-draw after qualifying… What’s the point in setting quick time if you end up starting eighth anyway…
Here’s an idea that makes sense… And turns out to be a great deal for the fans…
Lets say a dirt LM show ends up with 61 cars (like Volusia)… Start the show with a feature for one of the support classes (no heats for them this night) to help pack the track in… After that run a series of “qualifying” races… In this case, ten 10-lap qualifiers with six cars in each one (seven in one race) with a 10 minute time limit for each race… The 10 winners would then draw pills 1-10 for the first five rows in the feature. The second place drivers would draw pills for starting spots 11-20. The rest of the field would run a pair of 20 car B-Mains (20 laps each) with the drivers who finished third in the qualifiers occupying the forward starting positions. After the qualifiers, run the second support class feature followed by the B-mains… The third support class feature would follow, then the main event for the Late Models… If there is a fourth support class, they would round out the show… That would give the fans a total of 17 RACES to watch… As a promoter, I sure would not want to see half of my fans leave before the main event… weather most certainly is a factor here in FL, but if that’s the case, you must ADJUST!! The fans are your most important asset…
By the way, this qualifying system works even for the woefully poor car counts on asphalt this year… Say you have 16 cars show up… Split them into 4 ten lap qualifiers and use the same line-up procedure… You still have an 8 car B-Main and at least the fans get to see some racing…
Many drivers would not like this idea because “I might tear up my car.” But, the way I figure it, you come to RACE and the fans come to watch RACING, not one car at a time go around the track…
Just my two cents worth… Chime in with what you think… With the economy the way it is right now, track owners and promoters are going to have to start thinking “outside the box” and do things a bit differently to get both racers and fans to show up to their facilities…
Surely you aren’t suggesting 4 different, 4 car races? I think I’d rather watch Time Trials than that. I think 2 seperate 8 car races would work, but your theory divides things into TOO small of a group. Same with the 61 car field… I’d much rather see 6 ten car heats, than 10 six car heats.
“On the other hand, you see many 50-75-125 lap races become a parade even with the inversion…”. This is a problem unique to asphalt. The problem is NOT there on dirt.
“What’s the point in setting quick time if you end up starting eighth anyway…”. It beats setting 9th quick with NO chance of starting up front!
“The 10 winners would then draw pills 1-10 for the first five rows in the feature”. This is exactly the way it was done, except it for the 6 heat winners instead of 10.
“weather most certainly is a factor here in FL, but if that’s the case, you must ADJUST!! The fans are your most important asset…” On this point, I couldn’t agree more. The show DID run too long. The support classes SHOULD’VE been handled differently. I’m sure if the same circumstances came into play at the next show, I’m sure things WILL be handled differently.
But, people have to realize, a dirt track only has a WINDOW of opportunity to work within. Too wet, it gets sloppy & rutted. Too dry, it becomes single-lane, rubbered up, dusty and very difficult to pass on. If I WANT follow the leader, I’ll go to any asphalt track around.
A dirt track changes WAY to much for 61 cars to qualify as one group. The tracks optimum conditions would favor about 5 cars and that would be all. With group qualifying you are assured that the track is close to the same for all drivers in that group.
There were a few things that could have been different but I was noticing that one of the super late model races this weekend got done at 3:30 with less cars and only one support class and NO weather issuse and it was a 50 lap feature.
Large car counts are good and bad. We run smaller heats to give the drivers a chance. I as a driver would much rather run a heat of 10 laps against 10 cars than a 15 lap heat against 15-20 cars. With the added cars you are adding to the chance of something bad happening.
We do not like getting to bed late either and are working toward earlier finish times. When everyone was already gone from the track we were still there finishing up loose ends and we got to bed about 4:00am at a Hotel about 8 miles from the track.
[QUOTE=ancrdave;12538]After the scheduled one-day show at Volusia turned into a two-day show and a sunrise church service, my constant complaint about single car qualifying seems to be even more profound… Had the time trials been dropped, at least the show would have gotten over about the time midnight bowling ended in Deland.
My question is: [SIZE=“6”]Why qualify, then run heats too??[/SIZE] It’s a waste of time, especially with such a big field and support classes to boot…
I really think single car qualifying should be held only for races of 200 laps or more that are going to require pit stops anyway… In that case, I can see the point in letting the fast cars start up front. Even so, by the time the first set of pit stops is over, everything is usually pretty jumbled up and you have a really good, competitive race from that point on… The Hooters races at Lakeland are a good example… The first 100 laps or so are usually pretty boring. But when pits stops and pit strategies begin, that’s when the race gets interesting…
On the other hand, you see many 50-75-125 lap races become a parade even with the inversion… Plus, I’m sure most drivers hate the re-draw after qualifying… What’s the point in setting quick time if you end up starting eighth anyway…
Here’s an idea that makes sense… And turns out to be a great deal for the fans…
Lets say a dirt LM show ends up with 61 cars (like Volusia)… Start the show with a feature for one of the support classes (no heats for them this night) to help pack the track in… After that run a series of “qualifying” races… In this case, ten 10-lap qualifiers with six cars in each one (seven in one race) with a 10 minute time limit for each race… The 10 winners would then draw pills 1-10 for the first five rows in the feature. The second place drivers would draw pills for starting spots 11-20. The rest of the field would run a pair of 20 car B-Mains (20 laps each) with the drivers who finished third in the qualifiers occupying the forward starting positions. After the qualifiers, run the second support class feature followed by the B-mains… The third support class feature would follow, then the main event for the Late Models… If there is a fourth support class, they would round out the show… That would give the fans a total of 17 RACES to watch… As a promoter, I sure would not want to see half of my fans leave before the main event… weather most certainly is a factor here in FL, but if that’s the case, you must ADJUST!! The fans are your most important asset…
By the way, this qualifying system works even for the woefully poor car counts on asphalt this year… Say you have 16 cars show up… Split them into 4 ten lap qualifiers and use the same line-up procedure… You still have an 8 car B-Main and at least the fans get to see some racing…
Many drivers would not like this idea because “I might tear up my car.” But, the way I figure it, you come to RACE and the fans come to watch RACING, not one car at a time go around the track…
Just my two cents worth… Chime in with what you think… With the economy the way it is right now, track owners and promoters are going to have to start thinking “outside the box” and do things a bit differently to get both racers and fans to show up to their facilities…[/QUOTE]
Because that’s how the “WOO” and “Lucas Oil” series do it. IN MY OPINION
Guys I think the point has been made. I don’t want the timing to overshadow the accomplishments made by the series and promotors who seem to want to do the right thing. I am sure they will look into a more efficient system next time, but getting two groups to play by an agreed upon set of rules does limit your flexibility on the fly to change them. From what I have seen written and discussed, they will take a good thing and improve on it. If next time comes and nothing better happens, then I’ll be the first to complain, but I think they did a damn fine job of bringing people together, which is all but nonexistent in todays racing climate, and don’t want that to get lost in the shuffle as we dissect their procedures.
154 reasons why you are talking about the United Dirt Late Model Challenge Series:
Ken Kinney…the promoter
and the 153 drivers:
Adam Bendenbaugh
Adam Gilles
Al Larson
Allen Cribbs
Andy Schell
Bill Howard
Billy Costello
Bobby Alexander Jr
Bobby Clark
Bobby Eiland
Brandon Camron
Brandon Dewitt
Brett Carlton
Brian Bernhardt
Bubba Clem
Buddy Geiger
Chad Marcham
Charles Sealey
Chase Edge
Chris Day
Chuck Chitty
Chuck Julien
Clay Bedenbaugh
Dana Eiland
Darrell Padgett
David Clegg
David Davis
David Farmer
David Moheng
David Pollen Jr
David Schmauss
David Shugart
David Whitener
Dennis Williams
Dillion Wood
Doodle Pipken
Dusty Cone
Earl Boyette
Evan Becton
Frankie Erskin Jr
Gordy Scarborough
Hamp Conley
Homer Lenord
Ivedent Lloyd Jr
J R Mosley
JO Nobles
JR Prather Jr
Jackie Nosbisch
James " Bo" Allen
James Powell
Jason Davis
Jason Fizgerald
Jason Kimball
Jason Weeks
Jay Johnson
Jeff Choquette
Jeff Conyers
Jeff Culpepper
Jeff Fortner
Jeff Hunter
Jeff Mathews
Jimmy L Davis
Jimmy Waldrop
Joe Kump
Joey McRae
John Rankin
Johnny Allen
Johnny Collins
Jordy Nipper
Josh Nowles
Josh Peacock
Justin Choquette
Justin Weeks
KD Kelley
Kaleb Bedenbaugh
Keith Hall
Keith Nosbisch
Kenny Nosbisch
Kent Corbin
Kevin Mills
Kurt Jett
Kyle Bridges
Kyle Van Sickle
Larry Anderson
Larry Harrow
Lawton Menchew
Lonnie Roberts
Mark Hass
Mark Parkerson
Mark Patterson
Mark Whitener
Marshal Austin
Maruh Cook
Matt Hartley
Matt Miller
Michael Cherry
Michael Lloyd
Mike Bresnahan
Mike Eubanks
Mike Eubanks
Montana Dudley
P J Wiggens
Patrick Williams
Paul George
Paul Holloway
Paul Jorgenson
Phillip Cobb
Ray Johnson
Richard Ferry
Richard Pratt
Richard Stephens
Richard Wheelihan
Ricky Culpepper
Rob Underwood
Robby Barris
Robert Glover
Roger Arnett
Roger Crouse
Ronnie Chance
Russell Brown Jr.
Ryan Mitchell
Ryan Van Sickle
Seth Caudill
Shan Smith
Shane Stodghill
Shane Williams
Skip Pannell
Stacey Roberts
Steve Castelberry
Steve Gillman
Steve Mathis
Steve Miller
Steve Whitner
Steven Roberts
Ted Erskin
Terrence Nowles
Timmy Gay
Todd Alexander
Todd Darda
Tom Hunter
Tommy Evenosky
Tommy Evenosky Jr
Tony Payne
Tracy Jorgensen
Travis Varnadore
Tyler Ivey
Wallace Peacock
Wayne Allen
Wayne Anderson
Wayne Shugart
William Rose
William Thomas
Win Ingersoll
All the big dirt races I’ve been to they use the qualifing to line everyone up for the heats. Granted it was to bad that the show took along time. I think it is great that the series is doing good. Who would of thought that they would have 61 cars with times as tuff as they are. They must be doing something right oh yea this is one of the few series that havn’t been ran into the ground by mismangement and just being to lazy to go out and look for sponsors.
Jack, could you put them in alphebeticial order, the next time. Don’t send me a PM, I know it not spelled right.