OJ, the crate motors are allowed to be rebuilt by approved builders. Progressive being one of them. I know there are ALOT of motors in that series and the other ASA series that are cheated up. That is just the nature of the beast. If they just made the rules one carb, 362 cu in and a cast iron block it would make it much simpler.
Fred scores another…
Preachin’ to the choir, dude…
Yeah, I knew they allowed these “approved” engine re-builders to open up and tamper with the “crate” engines. And that’s right about the point in the ASA rule book where most of the marginally funded LM teams decide that if they want to race against someone’s pocketbook, they might as well be doing it closer to home. Can’t say I would blame them.
How can someone tout a series as the “ASA Crate Late Models” but allow them to be altered from the original GM or Ford specs? What is the point? How does that say “we’re saving the average Joe racer money” when he still has to have his crate motor reworked by one of the big doggies just to keep up with the Richie Rich’s who have two or three of those “special” crates sittin’ in the shop. It’s crazy.
“Crate” Late models…gimme a break.
It’s the nature of the beast all right, Fred.
Cheatin’ up race cars is as old as racing itself. But on the other hand, so is getting caught. Someone mentioned earlier something about stepping over the line(bubba). The lines have always been there and the thing about it is this…once you’re across it, well, you’re across it, man. It’s a lot like being just a little pregnant. I don’t know about ya’ll but when I was growing up and broke the rules “just a little bit”…I didn’t get a pro-rated whuppin’ for those minor infractions. I got the whole package. Now along the same lines if tracks and promoters would locate and pay to retain a decent and fair tech crew that they would let do their jobs and stand behind their decisions, short track racing would be in much better shape than it is now.
I can’t stand this politically correct, dancing around the issues, not wanting to hurt some wallet-racer’s feelings kind of attitude that a lot of tracks and most of these series seem to have adopted.
Fred’s rules…I like how you think, brother. :ernaehrung004:
OJ on the box
hmmm
Let’s see… Approved buider… sealed crate motor… DQ’d for illegal engine work… hmmmm
honestly though thank you very much for coming on and clearing the air…
understand that my comment above is not meant to upset anyone… BUT!!!
I give a big thumbs up to the ASA for actually checking these motors in post race inspections.
Choquette DQ’d
Once again Carol Wicks continues in her blind praise and defense of one of her favorites. The young man was caught cheating. The post by his girlfriend , didn’t clear anything up.
Anyone who has watched him , from his days at Okeechobee and Clewiston to the present have all seen what money can buy. He is an exceptional driver, but what was under the hood in all those rides? Has his equipment always been legal? Has it always been illegal?
I firmly believe everyone on the track cheats in some way, and once you are caught the “cheater” rumor will always be in peoples minds.
Nobody has the right to tell someone who to root for. I have no issues with Jeff even when he kicked our tails last year in ASA. He is a great driver and if what his fiancee Christie typed was true then it isn’t a big deal to me. You are coming off as jealous with your post. Yes he has always had top notch equipment but that isn’t his fault, and the guy can actually drive with it.
I assume you are an ASA fan and a Brian Blum fan since your post about him. He is a great kid who has a lot of talent and I talk to every time I see him so with that said I am curious to what do you think about Jon Wes Townley?Who ran against us last year in ASA but rarely was a factor for the win while Jeff was almost always a major player in the finish. I don’t think Jon has 1/4 of the talent that Jeff does and yet he is running ARCA/CTS/ and some Nationwide races.
oh boy…
i just said the same thing you did. jeff is an exceptional racer… and guess what…i bet if every SLM car was stripped down there would not be many that are 100% legal…i hate this new racing. was so much better when guys built their own and had their heads under the hoods making the best car possible. there arent many racers today that even know whats under the hood.
i couldnt pick a favorite driver if my life depended on it… how do you pick between jeff, travis, scofield, drawdy, middleton, walters, pletcher, BJ, williams, pratt, macey, bigley, rogers, russell, dempsey, winchell, franklin, powell, durden, cope, chastain, Buzzie, and hundreds of others…(im scared because i cant list them all and dont want to leave anyone out…). i love them all and that wasnt a nice thing for you to say to me. no matter how much i care about someone, i would not like knowing they cheated… IF jeff (crew) cheated, then his punishment was warranted. IF ! that does not change the fact that he can race the wheels off a car.
there is alot of hypocrasy in racing…people get on here and talk about fights, cheating, crashes, etc like they hate it but in reality, thats what excites most of them. i have carefully watched when a fight breaks out… the stands empty in about 2 seconds and a mob gathers with saliva dripping… roflllllllll then they come on here and want to lynch someone…
and what a nerve talking about their money…as if you all know how much money these guys have or are able to spend on a race car. this is AMERICA…some people can afford things and some cant… if ya cant take the heat get out of the kitchen!
EVERYONE CHEATS AT SOMETHING… its the nature of the beast… doesnt make it right. just makes it true. so stop judging before you know all the facts. and if its FACTS you want…dont come to a message board… lol
GO JEFF!!! I miss you and your family!
carolwicks aka OZZIE
Why hasn’t anyone been bitching about Progressive? As an “approved” engine builder, they stand to make a lot of money on rebuilds coming through their shop. Since they are apparently sending cheated up engines back out the door, why would they still be “approved”?
I say, any engine shop getting caught with illegal stuff being sent out, gets taken off the “approved engine builders” list. Hit 'em in the pocket, and you’ll see this shit stop.
I would think they have a lot more to lose with this arrangement, than they could possibly gain from Choquettes program. And if I remember correctly, McGunegill was taken off the “approved” list a few years ago for the same reasons… sending illegal motors out of their shop, when they were supposed to be the trusted authority on determining LEGAL motors.
That’s what I didn’t like about the SSS teching. If you had a crate you got a free pass in tech. Way to go ASA.
Frasson,
You can go to almost any engine builder, approved or not, and get what ever you want done to your crate motor and then have it resealed with after market GM seals. For the right price.
With that being said. When an approved engine builder reseals an engine for a series such as ASA and certifies that it is legal. It get a different kind seal that has a serial number assigned to that engine builder saying that the engine builder certifies that the motor is legal.
I would be willing to bet that the engine in question does not have approved engine builders seals on it. That would be like cutting your own throat for an engine builder.
So before we start bitching about Progressive it would be helpful to have some facts. It is still an asumsion that it is a Progressive engine. Does it have approved seals? Or was it built for other reasons.
That is why I keep saying that if a motor has GM seal in an approved engine builder series like ASA than it should have to be resealed by an approved builder.
DeMan951, to answer your John Wes Townley question, it’s pretty easy to get those rides when your dad owns Zaxby’s chicken restaurants.
Mr. South 59… My comment was not intended to be pointed solely at Progressive, McGunegill or any engine builder you can name. I was merely pointing out that “approved” rebuilders should be held to a very high standard of legality. If they can’t keep themselves from being “bought” to build a non-approved engine, then they shouldn’t be on the “approved” list in the first place.
I agree 100% with Frasson on this. Those guys are in essence officials when it comes to the motors, they should only be given a scant few do-overs with engines that have their seal on them (if any). It would put an end to the nonsense.
Drivers/owners will always push it to see what they can get away with. Builders would be less likely to cave in to the $$ if they stood to lose their business over it.
I know Jack I just was curious to what naranja thought since Jon Wes has more resources than Jeff and doesn’t have the talent Jeff has. Does he have have the same hate for him as he does for Jeff?
Frasson I have to admit that I agree with you… if the engine builder openly admits that he approved it and tagged it legal when in reality it wasn’t, then take him off the damn approved list… take his business away and he will rethink “fixing” someones engine…
please keep in mind that I am stating that in a business sense of mind… One customer should not destroy the rest of your business…
One customer should not destroy the rest of your business
only it wouldn’t be the “customer” destroying the engine builders business.
did you put that clause in there to demonstrate that the builder should have turned away that particular customer dollar in the first place or to say that building one “bad” motor shouldn’t get a builder de-certified? it’s not really clear to me which way you mean it.
Overly adhesive…
A long time ago I pondered what the criteria were for a post to be considered
[B] "sticky"[/B]
After 1659 views and 35 posts later…I still have to wonder…
I guess it’s like a tootsie roll and the futile search for how many licks it takes to get to the chewy center…
…it just all depends on who is holding the tootsie pop.
Eu Jai
okay i’ve read enough.all you guys know he’s a wheel man and has won alot of races.so to say that .15 of an inch makes him and progressive the all time cheaters.wow!I was the crew cheif for jeff last year,so all I can say is he was legal last year,a.s.a.yanked the moter said it was good it was a mcgunegill.that motor made more prower than the one thats illegal on progessives dyno! my new a.s.a. moter is from progessive and has progessive seals on it.jeffs was a rebuild ,not new,so I’d say decking a used moter is no good!!but can tell ya that every car running up front is pushing it on these motors.he’s still got the championships and victorys to prove he didnt need to push it to win.SO all you saints keep writing and i’ll keep reading!!one d.q.out of 50 aint doin to bad in this sport. jason hogan said jeff didnt have motor,he was better in the center just a tick he ran second to him all night,so I think he would know.just the facts’like him or not.
so to say that .15 of an inch
hope you’re missing a 0 there Rick.
Missing zeroes…
…and the point.
I want to thank Crew Chief Knecht for coming on here and setting us all straight about the legality of all the frontrunners in the ASA “Crate” motor series.
They’re all cheaters.
Of course, I’m sure they would want to dispute this claim of Rick’s also, as usually you aren’t “technically” cheating unless you are actually caught…like, uh, the 70 car was at Hickory.
But hey, if you say so, man, I’m with you.
Just for the sake of argument though, tell me this: If we’re all agreed that Jeff is such a good wheel man…and that all these championships and victories PROVE he doesn’t need to “push it” to win…why does he need a reworked crate from either of the builders you mentioned, both of whom have been busted for cheating them up, to win races? I only ask because that’s always the first line of defense for the guilty teams.
“It didn’t make a difference anyhow” “We’re so good we don’t need an advantage” “We didn’t know it was like that”
It gets old to keep hearing that crap while the “facts” (as people keep thinking they have) still point out that they were cheating and got caught.
In reading your last line about Hogan and his thoughts on why he couldn’t make the pass, this is what I got:
“Runner-up Hogan admits he needs to cheat more than he already does to beat the cheated up car that finished in front of him.”
Sorry…you can replace “cheat” with “push it” wherever you want but I think I made that point earlier with the “kinda pregnant” metaphor…
Again, thanks for letting us know Jeff and everyone else, oops, I mean the frontrunners, was and are indeed running cheated up motors from multiple builders. I think we already had that suspicion but your first hand experience helps to make the argument and set our minds at ease.
Keep on reading and don’t be so shy about posting what you think about things. And good luck in tech with your new GM crate motor…er…I mean your “new” Progressive sealed motor that is supposed to be just like a crate.
Wow, I almost called you an also ran there. Sorry 'bout that.
Saint OJ