McCain screwed the pooch.

Is that all ya got? :aetsch013: Gonna have to do better to insult me. Teachers have called me worse.

Im not saying in any of this that by any means am I an Obama fan. I actually detest his policies on spending and government interference. Nor am I saying that McCain is much better. I merely said that he could have made a better Veep choice.

[QUOTE=ovalracer44;15967]On the other side of the coin, roundtracker made an inference about my political ideologies.

If you look up in the dictionary, conservative what do you find?

Western conservatism and Southern conservatism. I align myself with western conservatism. Western conservatism is for smaller government, lower taxes, less government spending less government interference with personal life and liberty.

Southern conservatism is the bible thumping, think goverment should dictate what people do by the bible. Higher taxes and yes, welfare programs to take care of those less fortunate

The republican ideology originally sided with western conservatism, but since selling out to Pat Buchannon, and Jerry Falwell, they are now more southern conservative.

Religion and its ideologies have no place in government and should have no bearing on the laws of the land.[/QUOTE]

Religion and its ideologies was how our fore fathers came up with the ideas of the law of the land!

It doesn’t say any where in the constitution about separation of church and state. It just says in the first ammendment that congress shall make no law respecting religion or establishment of religion or prohibit the free exercise of religion.

Where you come up with southern conservatives as being for more taxes more government and more welfare beats me?

I consider my self a very southern conservative and am for none of those things.

As far as your ideologies, I know from reading your other posts that you are not enamored by either candidate. I just feel that you and a lot of others pick up on the liberal media and televisions way of normalizing un normal things. Words such as right wing radical is made up by people that can’t win an argument with ideas. So they instantly dismiss what you have to say by calling someone a name!

You mean like the other night. I cant write that kind of stuff on here.
Lol, I have been called worse by better people.
I fixed the quotations so it more clear.

For the record, it was never proved that George Washington was a deist.
Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were. I dont remember if John Adams was or the others.

ok kiddies

Ok kids lets go to our respective corners an come out swinging foamy bats… it will do way less harm then the politicians do when they open up their mouths.

honestly though, let’s get to the point… we need a President who is not afraid of pissing people off… that won’t be found unless we elect Jesse Ventura President… ROFLMAO…

one requirement for Presidency should be military service… it seems that military folk have less stupidity in their thought process… plus military folk are less likely to send us and our children to far and distant places to shoot, kill, and maim other stupid greedy people…

have a great night all…

Have you ever lived in Beaufort SC? My house is 3 miles from the gate of Parris Island. The east coast Marine Corps training base and I would seriously beg to differ.

Just about all military personnel I know cant make a decision for themselves to save their lives. Most that can are the type that get out after 1 or 2 terms.

[QUOTE=flraceguy;15981]

honestly though, let’s get to the point… we need a President who is not afraid of pissing people off… that won’t be found unless we elect Jesse Ventura President… ROFLMAO… .[/QUOTE]

I guess that makes ‘W’ a good President. He has pissed a lot of people off.
But in his defense: He surrounded himself with some incompetent people that he trusted, and they let him down. 9/11 handed him a problem no other President has had. Our own shores under multiple attacks and not prepared for it. Somewhat like Pearl Harbor, but not isolated to some small islands far away like 9/11.

Ovalracer, I am one of those in the military who only stayed 7 years. After a tour of Nam and 3 1/2 years in Germany I became very board with a peace time Army. We were trained to break things and kill people and ended up painting trucks and cleaning barracks. The quality of new troops made us sergeants nothing more than baby-sitters. Not for me at all.

:smilie_bett: Gotta watch the debate…and may the best woman win…:sprachlos020:

–JIm----

[QUOTE=ovalracer44;15964]America was not founded by or on Christian principles. Most of our forefathers were Deists that realized religion had no place in politics. No where in the constitution is God or christianity mentioned. The preamble sums it up.
In god we trust was put on currency in 1957. Long after the founding of this country.

The Pledge of allegiance was written originally by a baptist minister, and did not include god. 1954 under the influence of Eisenhower, the “under god” was added.[/QUOTE]

You don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Go back and study American history. And study what some of our fore Fathers said about God and the government. And please learn to spell Christianity right.

If you put your glasses back on you would see that Christianity is spelled right in my post. I do have my history correct.

I am tired of having people try to cram their beliefs down my throat in the form of government regulation.

The founding fathers were smart enough to know that a separation of church and state is necessary. You can hate me, thats fine but do not expect me to feel the same way as you or anyone else.

Just because im not dumb enough to sit in a building for half of a sunday, listen to someone tell me how to live my life, give up 10% of my income and use the Bible to tell someone else how they should live, does not give you the right to talk down to me.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatch/fathers_quote2.htm

Go ahead and read the quotes.

Now I can get started on the amount of hypocracy in the Christian organization.

70% of Americans identify themselves as Christian.

Now lets look at that. If that was true, walmart would not be open on sunday, there would be no need, no one would be out shopping.

There would not be near as many bars in operation. Not as much drinking.

Drive to your nearest church, watch as people “who dont work on sundays” leave the parking lot of their place or worship, drive down the street, pull into a restaurant, and EXPECT someone to wait on them.

I guess not nearly as many people are drinking the religious Kool-aid because churches are now having to ADVERTISE to get people through the door. many churches are on the brink of closing because of lack of attendance.

I am certain that McCain has lost the election over his decision.

by nominating McCain, the Republicans tried to sh!4can this election, he’s just finishing it off. i’m thinking Constitution Party.

Can we get a new moderator for the veep debate tonight?

George Stephanopoulus qualifies as an “unbiased” news man. you never had a chance in hell that the media would have enough principal to demand a moderator with even the “appearance” of balance.

Bailout vote was yes

Senate only. but i never figured they were going to fight it anyways.

the House rejected the previous bill and will vote on the Senate bill, possibly tomorrow.

if it passes the House, Bush has promised to sign it.

the House, and only the House, is and always has been our only chance to stop this.

So why would he want to hide it .

because, Constitutional right or no, it would make him unelectable. plus taqqiya encourages a Muslim to lie about his faith if he should find it advantageous to do so.

but as i’ve said before, i don’t think he’s serious enough about anything to have a “faith” of any kind.

[I]

If he cant make up his mind what religion he is, then how is he going to make important decisions in the white house.[/I]

he’s Marxist, does that answer it for you?


If Mc Cain looses it won’t be because of her it will be by the one sided media that has been stroking the obama train and being so one sided.

no, it will be because McCain is a Democrat in everything but party affiliation.

case in point:
there is a House Republican proposal alternative to the bail out bill. McCain won’t have anything to do with it.

if he had come out of that meeting last week championing the House Republican proposal he could have slammed Obama as a willing and eager tool of the rich fat cats in NYC and DC. instead, he’s indistinguishable from Obama ( just as much of a willing and eager tool of the rich fat cats ) except that the media is trying to blame McCain for Obama blowing up the negotiations.

America was not founded by or on Christian principles.

mmm-mmm, that Kool-Aid tastes mighty fine.

strange how the Founding Father’s opened every session of Congress with prayer, and included prayer and or swearing on the Bible in almost every ceremony.


The founding fathers were smart enough to know that a separation of church and state is necessary.

if it’s so important, it’s strange that they didn’t say that in the Constitution.

Go ahead and read the quotes.

yes, almost every single one of them making the point that there should be no official state church.

which, by the bye, i’ve never seen any Christian request.

and this has what to do with you telling Christians that they are not permitted to voice their opinions in public or vote their conscience or if elected ( presumably by Christians, to represent a Christian perspective ) to enact Constitutional laws based on those beliefs?

[QUOTE=Todd McCreary;16012][
and this has what to do with you telling Christians that they are not permitted to voice their opinions in public or vote their conscience or if elected ( presumably by Christians, to represent a Christian perspective ) to enact Constitutional laws based on those beliefs?[/QUOTE]

One.I have no problem with them voicing their opinions, but legislating on beliefs that in effect discriminate on a portion of the population, not happening. You can bet that I would be the first one firing shots.

Two. Regardless of what the founding fathers thought, they were in the mindset that slavery was ok, and women have no rights and should be treated as property.

Women were given the right to vote, own property, sit on a jury et. al. by people with a “liberal” mindset. Sometimes a little bit of liberalism is progressive.

Two. Regardless of what the founding fathers thought, they were in the mindset that slavery was ok, and women have no rights and should be treated as property.

so now that you’ve been slam dunked on all that crap you were spouting about the Founding Fathers you wish to disavow everything they had to say?

nice.

You can bet that I would be the first one firing shots.

yeah, only there’s a lot of people out there trying to treat the 2nd amendment like you want to treat the 1st amendment … which would leave you without a gun.

[QUOTE=Todd McCreary;16015]

You can bet that I would be the first one firing shots.

yeah, only there’s a lot of people out there trying to treat the 2nd amendment like you want to treat the 1st amendment … which would leave you without a gun.[/QUOTE]

Explain to me mr know it all then. How am I trying to treat the 1st ammendment. All im trying to do is protect my own rights from a hypocritical Christian based bunch of nutjobs.

Oh yeah why dont you go register your truck in the state in which you live.

I guess you are like everyone else. Only your opinion counts and no one elses does. You can have that bullshit and you can bet I will gladly stay the fuck out of florida.

Moderators please remove my account from this site.

I hate hypocrites.

Taking his ball and going home

[QUOTE=ovalracer44;16017]Oh yeah why dont you go register your truck in the state in which you live.

I guess you are like everyone else. Only your opinion counts and no one elses does. You can have that bullshit and you can bet I will gladly stay the fuck out of florida.

Moderators please remove my account from this site.

I hate hypocrites.[/QUOTE]

That’s what happens when you cannot win an argument or even put up an intelligent argument. Take your ball and go home little boy. Leave this web site to the real men and women. Just as I said. Start calling people names when you cannot get your way!:aetsch013:

Come on Kev, easy bud. We need congress to act fast and keep church, state and racing separated.

Thanks for straighting us out Todd . Though i can’t help but question a couple of your conclusions . Do you suppose that maybe the reason McCain does not support the Republican proposal is that it isn’t any good ? And i 'm not sure i follow your reasoning about Obama being the willing tool of fat cats . Fat cats are almost all Republicans . That would make McCain the willing tool of the fat cats . And there is no circumstance whatsoever when someone of the Muslim faith is encouraged to lie about their faith . In fact that is true of any religion . And finally , if the constitution says that congress can make no laws concerning religion , then i’d say that pretty much seperates church from state , wouldn’t you agree .

While we are on religion and churches I wanted to pass on this little tidbit.

Behind my office in Titusville used to be New Life church. 10,000+ sq ft.
the chapel was only a few years old. They built a new multi million dollar facility a few miles up the road on us-1. They put the old one up for sale. They had a few good offers from other churches and they would not accept the offers from a church. Needless to say they tell the congregation they sold it which is a complete lie. In fact it was foreclosed on. The inside has been completely destroyed, all of the a/c units were stripped out, wiring ripped out of the walls, and finally the bank sent people to clean it up and board the windows. New life church still goes on today acting like nothing has ever happened and people continue to give their money to the church. Crap like this makes me sick. I hope they rot in hell.

Kevin makes a point about church. I believe in God and live the best life I can but I will not give one penny to a church.

Hey Kevo,
I can picture it now, your eye bugging out of your head all blood shot staring at the computer till midnight with the blood pressure pushing the 200 mark. Maybe a little steam coming out of your ears with every post read. Take a breath brother and dont take it so personal. There is a reason that Boneman, Jane, Frass, Ab195 and alot of others stay out of posts like these. They are not racing related and they become personal.

Politics and religion are the two biggest reasons for conflict throughout history.

All im trying to do is protect my own rights from a hypocritical Christian based bunch of nutjobs.

and the hypocritical Christian nutjobs are trying to infringe on which of your Constitutionally guaranteed rights again?

slavery was practiced by almost every society until the Christian states of Great Britain and the US exerted great efforts to abolish it in the 19th century. in fact, the primary purpose for which the Republican party was founded was abolition of slavery.

Christian states have also been at the forefront of getting women equal rights and the voting franchise.

you consider these things to be great mysteries.

I guess you are like everyone else. Only your opinion counts and no one elses does.

i suggest that you back your opinion up with facts instead of more opinion and this is your response? did i tell you that you couldn’t speak?

so i’m not permitted to disagree with you, or what?

who is trying to infringe on what Constitutional right here?

keep in mind, “mindlessly obeying Kevo” is not in my copy of the Constitution. strange, that.

Moderators please remove my account from this site.

because you can’t trust yourself not to come back if you don’t have them ‘ban’ you? say what?

better to leave the account inactive, that way the name wouldn’t be available for someone else to hijack.

I hate hypocrites.

can you imagine that? something we agree on.

And there is no circumstance whatsoever when someone of the Muslim faith is encouraged to lie about their faith .

1st, this is a blatant lie born out of complete and willful ignorance of Islam. if you can’t be bothered to google taqiyya, then don’t bother “refuting” me.

2nd, only those who live under Sharia law are in “Dar al Islam” or the “House of Peace” … where Islamic moral strictures are required to be followed. most other geographic areas not under Sharia law are considered “Dar al Harb” or the “House of War”. perhaps you’d like to explain to all of the kind people here what acts are forbidden to Muslims who are engaged in war? trying to find some act that Mohammed himself did not commit ( such as murdering entire cities ) would be a good place to start.

"It has been determined by Islamic law that the blood and property of people of Dar Al-Harb is not protected.
"

3rd, if you haven’t paid your jizya and you aren’t a Muslim then you aren’t a citizen in good standing to a Muslim

4th, Islam follows the forms of Judaism much more closely then it follows Christianity. to a Muslim the Hadith have nearly as much importance as the Koran itself ( as the Talmud is to the Tanakh ). don’t read the Koran and presume to tell me that you know all there is to know about Islam. you’re throwing away 1500 years of Muslim theology that the Muslim’s themselves consider to be on par with the will of Allah.

suggestion: if you don’t know the terms that i’m using , it would be best not to assume that i’m just making up nonsense. research them before you start spouting off about them.

Do you suppose that maybe the reason McCain does not support the Republican proposal is that it isn’t any good ?

McCain is in favor of the Democrat proposal. ergo, his mind is right. :confused: but wait, doesn’t Bush being in favor of the Democrat proposal automagically make it wrong? :aetsch013:

question:
can you explain to everyone here what the House Republican proposal consisted of and then show how it differed from the Democrat / Bush / Obama / McCain proposal?

or are you completely ignorant of what the House Republican proposal was?

if you’re completely ignorant of what it was, why are you so willing to trust the people who screwed this all up ( Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, Henry Paulson ) and discarding the opinion of the people ( House Republicans ) who have been saying this was going to blow up for 5+ years now?


Fat cats are almost all Republicans .

more Democrats than Republicans in Congress are millionaires by gross number and by percentage. their fortunes also tend to be larger. Bill Gates is a Democrat and so is Warren Buffett just to name a couple of biggies. don’t forget John “Heinz” Kerry.

shall we get into the demographic voting patterns of those third world areas of the USA like NYC, Chicago and California? Palm Beach county, which way do they vote ( when they can figure out their ballots ) again?

what about the Ivy league schools that edumacate so many of the fatcats children, since when did they become conservative?

hmmmm. i’m sure you’re right but i’m just not finding any facts to back you up.

And i 'm not sure i follow your reasoning about Obama being the willing tool of fat cats .

for the same reason that McCain is a willing tool of the fatcats. or perhaps you think that they voted in opposition to each other on this bill? you’d be wrong. they’ve both been overtly for this thing from the get go.

That would make McCain the willing tool of the fat cats .

i’m pretty sure i said McCain was “a tool” the first time around. glad to hear you agree with me.

And finally , if the constitution says that congress can make no laws concerning religion

that would be cute if the Constitution said that, wouldn’t it?

too bad that’s not what it says:
First Amendment to the United States Constitution in it’s totality:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”.

the religion clause in the 1st amendment prohibits the “establishment” of an official state church such as the Anglican in England or the Roman Catholic in Italy.

other than that, it forbids all federal ( yes, that may very well be one of the un-enumerated rights of the individual states, see the 10th Amendment ) interference in the free exercise of religion of any citizen.

Kevo is telling us that the very act of being elected somehow contravenes the Constitution and forbids those elected officials who have religious beliefs from acting or governing on them … even though you would expect that they had been elected at least in part because of their beliefs. what principles they are supposed to substitute for the ones they are being forced to cast aside he leaves unstated. also left unstated is why he thinks it’s okay to abridge the democratic will of the people who cast those votes at his whim. they might be wrong but they do have the advantage of numbers.


Kevin makes a point about church.

hypocrites should disgust everyone. and we all know that atheists can’t be hypocrites.