Read on Speed51 website:
SLM - It has been announced the the FASCAR Sunbelt Series will not be back in its present form for next season. Tour owner Robert Hart has decided to step away from touring racing, leaving the Florida Super Late Model Series to be discontinued. However, a possible new tour is being explored to take the palce of the Sunbelt Series. Speed51.com will have news of any new tour as it becomes available. (11-24-08)
I mean no disrespect to the drivers, but this was easily one of the least competitive Sunbelt years yet, simply due to a lack of cars chasing the entire series.
It would be nice if all of the pavement tracks in this state would just run the same rules for late models, then have each track champion have a guaranteed start in the Governors Cup or something similar and also run qualifying races like DIRT does for Syracuse. Or maybe all tracks run Pensacola’s rules and use the Snowball Derby as the automatic-qualifier race.
We’ve got to get something in place so our drivers can run out of state and vice versa for Speedweeks and the Governors Cup.
Is the CRA the answer? PASS rules? I don’t know…
It certainly seems like the idea of a “Florida spec motor” should also end. All year, there has been speculation that some teams get the better spec motors, and based on the race last week, I’d have to assume that is true. Several guys were racing hard for third on back, but really no one besides Russell and Anderson were able to contend for the lead.
We can continue to stick our heads in the sand here on our beautful beaches or climb on board with a rules package that attracts out of state drivers and allows our guys to travel as well. Right now, they (CRA/PASS) have the big names, races, etc. Fighting them at this point is pointless. The debate about engines reminds me of the Mac/PC stuff. Big deal that the Mac is cooler and more intuitive, etc. “nobody” uses them and finding staff that can operate them and programs that run on them is painful and usually not beneficial to a company.
The Southern Slam race at South Georgia on Sunday had the same amount of cars (26) as NSS did, but look at the top 5 finishers:
12 Justin Drawdy - FL
112 Augie Grill - AL
10 Jack Landis - IN
51 Alex Haase - NC
14 Ben Rowe - ME
Notice that the top 5 were ALL from different states/regions? Why is it, that this group can all run the same rules and be competitive anywhere, while the Gov. Cup field was entirely Florida, with the exception of Dennis Schoenfeld ( who lives in NC now, but was originally from Jax.)
The upcoming Snowball Derby (CRA rules) will host close to 70 cars. The Rattler 250 (CRA rules) at South Alabama Speedway already has 53 entries for a race that won’t even happen until next MARCH.
Just from my observations this weekend, I’d have to say that the CRA rules seem to be working just fine in comparison to FL rules.
I’d love to see all the current rule books thrown in the trash can, and give every current owner a choice of 2 books… A CRA Super Late rulebook, or an ASA Crate Engine rulebook. Make our Florida cars get on the same page as the rest of the East coast.
The owner of FASCAR (Robert Hart) announced this on Inside Florida Racing last week. He made it very clear his intentions with the touring series.
The announcement about the future of the Sunbelt Super Late Model Series will be made on Inside Florida Racing tonight 7-9 PM.
Sad to hear the FASCAR series is going away . In its time it was some great racing . I agree that all tracks in Florida should have the same rules , and that goes for all classes , not just Super Lates . But i don’t see that the CRA rules or the ASA rules are the way to go . Maybe . But if this state ever does go to a common rules package , someone needs to do some serious investigating all over the US and come up with a rules package that really works , Theres a lot of choices out there from California to Maine , from NASCAR to FASCAR , and they all have different rules packages , some to keep the costs down and some just to go fast .
Apparently, keeping costs’ down isn’t very important to a few teams that can afford it.
You’re looking for a rules package “that works everywhere”? See my post above. It’s an example of a rulebook that obviously DOES work for MANY different regions… except Florida, go figure. The top NINE cars at SGMP were from different states. I’d say it IS working.
I vote for CRA rules…SGMP was a killer show!
Asphalt Late Models in Florida were very strong back in 2000-2001. The biggest changes since then have to do with motors and track testing.
In 2001 we ran both the Florida Pro and Sunbelt Series. Each week we raced against 20 plus cars, and there were about eight of us that ran both series.
Everyone had a “steel head” motor, and whether it was a Pletcher, Boyd, O’Connell, or Progressive, we all had close to the same power. Then they let roller cams run, then 9:1’s (which required a $3,500 carb), then the Fords came on strong and you had to have one of those. All that did was seperate the big budget teams and the ones who raced as a hobby. This is suppose to be a hobby right? Case in point…about 4 yrs ago, we spent pretty much all our money updating my steel head motor. $14,500 to get it to 575hp. Two months later, out comes the Florida Spec. For $500 more dollars I could have had a brand new motor, 610HP, and a 50 lb weight break! So in a matter of two months, my motor was out dated, and hardly worth 5K on the used market.
The other big expense to teams is track testing. Why do we need to be there the night before for practice? Even worse, when you do get off work in time to go the day before, you show up and find 2 or 3 teams that have already been there for 2 days. So now I’m even further behind. This sport was founded by the “working man”, not rich dads trying to buy thier kids tickets to nascar. One day shows with an hour of open practice is plenty. With zero track rental. That will put everyone back on a level playing field, and save the tire bill at the same time. Less practice is less wear and tear on everything. The fans don’t know or care who won practice the night before! If promoted right, the lost rental revenue will be made up because now more guys will race and feel like they have a fighting chance. They don’t have to pay more, just make it cost less. Do we really have to spend $95 on an ABC fender when Kens Fiberglass was making and selling them for $45? Who did that help? Not the racers, and it put Ken out of business.
These are the reasons me and several other guys have switched to dirt. We know Roush and Hendrick are not calling. But we are racers. I will never spend $2,000 to run a race that pays $3,000…The last race I ran on Dirt paid $3000, and I finished 11th with carb problems. My total cost including entry fee was $275. I got paid $300 for 11th…see my point?
Finally, a big time racer comes on this board and makes sense. Us little guys have been voicing our concerns for years, though it always appears none of the shot callers are ever listening. As Mr. Bresnahan writes “it’s a hobby”, but today’s track operators are more impressed with 10 toter homes towing 60 foot rigs than 100 pick up trucks towing open trailers.
Hey Mike, Welcome to the dark side!!! LOL.
On a serious note when it comes to asphalt racing, Blame should be put on EVERYONE’S shoulders.Not just the tracks owners. I remember back in 95 when Paul Pitre made the announcement at Ocala that he was putting down asphalt. He said it was cheaper to run than dirt. I knew he was full of it at the time but asphalt racing was rising in popularity at the time. The truth was that the only one it was cheaper on was Paul himself cause all he had to do was blow off the track.
Anyone who’s been around long enough knows how racing works. It usually works in 10 to 15 year cycles. Dirts popular and asphalts not. Then asphalts popular and dirts not, on and on and on…
There is only one series on the globe that I know of that allows unlimited testing at the track in which an event is scheduled. That series is not CRA, Camping World, The now gone Hooters cup, Nascar truck, Nascar Nationwide, Nascar Sprint cup, or even Formula 1, it is Fascar sunbelt.
It is very discouraging to take a Friday off from work (That you really couldn’t afford to take off anyway, financially or otherwise) in order to load and make it to the track on time for Friday practice, only to see 5-10 other good teams that have been at the racetrack since Wednesday waiting for you. I made mention of this to a certain Fascar official one night and was told that the tracks could not afford to lose the revenue generated from track rental.
For me, there was a point where I was going to sacrifice my work schedule, and tire budget to go to Lakeland and test. Then I realized that I would need at least 1 or 2 guys to go with me on that weekday to at least jack up the car and take lap times. Who was going to pay them for missing a weekday at work?
The engine situation as Mike stated is also ridiculous. Ray Miller’s NLMSS dirt series prides itself on it’s first engine rule change in 15 years beginning this year (A spec aluminum cylinder head is now allowed). The best engine to have in a SLM in FL has honestly changed a MINIMUM of 5 to 7 times in the last 10 years. Mike hit the nail on the head, every time you go out and spend a bunch of money to feel competitive, you are outdated within months.
I can honestly say that I have no desire to own another asphalt late model. We are enjoying the dirt and even when you have your bad nights on dirt, it is easier to take because chances are, your entire nights investment will include 1 day away from home, 2 tires, 5 gallons of fuel, and entry fees. And that is for a $5k to win series race. The cost to run an asphalt series race is significantly higher.
With that being said, dirt is not for everyone participant and fan alike. The state of Florida has some of the country’s best asphalt SLM competitors and that is a fact. For that reason it is truly a shame what it has all came down to for everyone involved. I could go on forever and ever on this subject, so I will just leave it at that.
Maybe, for everyones sake, someone will come along and promote a new series, we certainly have the quality around here to provide quality shows. Maybe something with 1 day shows, some sort of maximum tire purchase rule, no testing, and common rules.
Rich PrattThis is something that’s been discussed on this board for as long as I’ve been around. It’s great that Mike and Rich have added their opinions, thus giving this topic some credibility. As a fan, I haven’t been to an asphalt race this year. I admit I’m partial to dirt but I live much closer to an asphalt track. If the costs are brought under control, more racers will participate. With more racers, hopefully the racing will be better. Particularly if some inversion is done.
BTW, as Jimbo said, Welcome to the dark side Mike and Rich. 
Sad to hear the FASCAR series is going away
should i ask the obvious question?
So in a matter of two months, my motor was out dated, and hardly worth 5K on the used market.
hmmm. a major rules change with no warning to the competitors.
scratches head
now where have i seen that management style in action before?
[QUOTE=Frasson118;18733]The Southern Slam race at South Georgia on Sunday had the same amount of cars (26) as NSS did, but look at the top 5 finishers:
12 Justin Drawdy - FL
112 Augie Grill - AL
10 Jack Landis - IN
51 Alex Haase - NC
14 Ben Rowe - ME
Notice that the top 5 were ALL from different states/regions? Why is it, that this group can all run the same rules and be competitive anywhere, while the Gov. Cup field was entirely Florida, with the exception of Dennis Schoenfeld ( who lives in NC now, but was originally from Jax.)
The upcoming Snowball Derby (CRA rules) will host close to 70 cars. The Rattler 250 (CRA rules) at South Alabama Speedway already has 53 entries for a race that won’t even happen until next MARCH.
Just from my observations this weekend, I’d have to say that the CRA rules seem to be working just fine in comparison to FL rules.
I’d love to see all the current rule books thrown in the trash can, and give every current owner a choice of 2 books… A CRA Super Late rulebook, or an ASA Crate Engine rulebook. Make our Florida cars get on the same page as the rest of the East coast.[/QUOTE]
jack landis ohio
With Mr. Pratt and Mr. Bresnahan’s posts I would say this is the thread of the year right here.
Actually I heard that Jack Smith paid them show up money so there would be more interest in this board. 
Todd may have been hinting at it, but the Fascar series’ would have to go away for this mystery person to start up a new series, right.
Now that there is no more Sunbelt or Goodyear series, this opens the door for the rumored Combined Late Model class. Now instead of 20 or so cars in each of these series we’ll have 40 competing in one!! Something tells me that won’t work either.
CRA seems to be getting something right, but that’ll be a cold day I’m sure when they come back to a Fascar track…Maybe we can just borrow their rules
I’ve been around this stuff longer than most anybody and have I seen the changes over the years…
We started going to races in FL in 1962… When Frank Dery decided to run a 200 lap FL State Championship for LM in 1963, everyone thought he was crazy until around 60 cars showed up and put on a whale of a show… Until 1967, what became the Governor’s Cup was the ONLY big race for LM in Florida with the exception of the Snowball Derby which never attracted drivers from Central/North FL in it’s early years… it was just too far away…
For Sprint Car fans, all you had were the IMCA Winternationals in Tampa in February…
1967 saw another 200 lap LM race… The South FL State Championship which would become a traditional event at Hialeah Speedway. Oddly enough, a Golden Gate Speedway regular, Billy Gill, came down and won that first race in a 1961 Chevy… NSS was also paved late in the year and the first race there was a 200 lapper won by Larry Flynn… The following year, either Doc Epps or Ed Otto promoted a big 200 lap LM race at New Smyrna… I was at this one and what a show it was… The thing attracted about 70 cars from literally everywhere and Bud Middaugh of PA in another 1961 Chevy won that one…
Over the years the Governor’s Cup and South FL Championship continued with Hialeah now hosting the Marion Edwards, Jr. Memorial starting in 1969 after Marion’s death at NSS…
Things really stayed pretty much the same with a few other extra distance races popping up here and there including the Gulf Coast 100 which was run at Sunshine Speedway the night before the Governor’s Cup…
I can’t really recall any “touring” LM Series before Don Nerone started the USA Series and Bert Ashelman started Florida Pro in the '80s… Both these groups were very successful for several years but three things killed them off… First it seemed every track wanted to run some kind of big LM race and teams now had a choice of whether to run a big show closer to home or travel and chase points… Secondly, the rules situation became chaotic at best… and third it simply began to cost so much to race that many teams either quit or severely cut back schedules…
In the early ‘90s there could be a big LM race somewhere of 100 laps or more every week… sometimes two or three of them… When Clyde Hart brought the Governors Cup to NSS, the first 2-3 years saw the race run on the traditional first Sunday in November and each race drew a really good field of cars, but that began to slip away…
I remember sitting in Pete Orr’s office at the old RACECAR shop in Winter Park about 12 years ago talking about the state of LM racing just a few days before that years’ Governors Cup and he confided to me that the Governors Cup had become “just another race” to him as part of the constant influx of big LM races which were going on every week…
And so it has continued with all types of touring groups, 6 pack series etc. diluting the fields etc. etc.
So what can be done… The track promoters/owners have to work together… Take a look at who has had the most success and put on the best show among traveling Series around the southeast… is it CRA, ASA, GAS… Mimic their rules and make things affordable for all race teams to make these shows… Eliminate “practice” days, run a standard tire rule etc.
Get all tracks to become part of the series… If you schedule two races each at Auburndale, Desoto, Charlotte County, Citrus, Columbia, OSW and NSS it would give you a 14 race “Series” and make the traditional events a part of it: the Governor’s Cup, Clyde Hart Memorial, Marion Edwards, Jr. Memorial, Brian Davidson Memorial, the Icebreaker, and maybe bring the South FL Championship back and run it at Charlotte County… This would still leave some “room” for some other events like the Redeye 100 in Jan at NSS and the traditional Pete Orr Memorial at NSS during the World Series at NSS…
How about a bit of “innovation” from time to time… I’d love to see a race like the Cracker 200 brought back at either NSS or OSW but run it in four 50 lap segments with a format like the Sportsman used last week… Or how about the old Chicago-style “Monza” races of 300 laps divided into three separate 100 lap races…
With the economy in the tank and certainly not going to get better any time soon, tracks are going to have to get innovative particularly in billing their shows as “entertainment” rather than simply racing… I remember the ads in the Orlando Sentinel for the old Orlando Raceway were not in the sports section of the paper, but rather on the page that listed movies and other forms of entertainment… The Sanford-Orlando Kennel Club and the Orland Jai-Alai Fronton did the same thing… Put on a “show” and you can get the fans and, of course, keep them coming back - that’s the real deal right now…