I guess my point here earlier was that there is seemingly, (only seemingly) a systematic formula for failure and demise for any hot-shot captain/promoter to take the helm of the two battleships/raceways. Nothing really great can happen here, and it’s not the promoters fault.
I pointed out two earlier promoters of SpeedWorld which had success, in my observations.
Orlando SpeedWorld and New Smyrna Speedways have both been recently paved. They are well groomed, clean and in super fine shape. It just seems that they are missing a some ingedients; full pits…which in turn bring in full grandstands. (enter the payouts, the teching and the treatments).
A FASCAR track covered over in dirt becomes another FASCAR track failing, I fear. Nothing will improve, and hasn’t improved in 26 years. You can put red lipstick on a pig, and it’s still just another pig.
I really like the two fine Raceways, and I hate to see anyone, or any facility fail. Big-time weekend local stock car racing is only a blip away for these two Raceways, it has always seemed.
Me, take the helm? My knowledge of the inner workings, and the political science of the drivers and pits would almost make it impossible. I’m a blue-collar man, small business owner, a tuna/hamberger helper kind-of guy, and to manage a Raceway would be way out of my league.
Somebody else can do it, I’m sure, and has the knowledge and recources to hang. Unless of course, a huge oppressive thumb squanders the living life out out of the Promoter.
[B][I]Find a Speedway Illustrated of this month and check the survey in there. Then compare with your local short track, and see how it does.
One of the best survey I have seen in a long time. Honest, down to earth questions. Really worth reading. [/I][/B]
Street stocks , and for that matter most lower classes , do not bring in crowds . Good racing , but people aren’t driving thirty minutes and buying tickets to watch street stocks . And as Lakeland found out , people aren’t showing up to see Super Late shows either .
Speedweeks at NSS brings in crowds . Crash A Ramas bring in crowds . The PRI races bring in crowds . School Bus figure 8s bring in crowds . The biggest crowd DeSoto ever had was the night that seven or eight Cup drivers were on hand to sign autographs . I think NSS has done the same type of thing with similar crowds . Why do fans happily show up for those events , but not weekly shows ? The tracks are not giving the fans a reason to show up . And lowering the ticket prices isn’t going to entice somebody to go see a a crappy show .
All of the lower classes HAVE TO bring in the new body styles and engines . The modifieds have to start looking and running like the New England Tour cars . The Super Lates are going to have to be a once a month or once every three months show involving touring series to get a car count . Sprints and /or midgets are going to have to be scheduled once a month .
EDM, Where is HERE? I’ve lived in East Orlando for 42 years.
Heres a couple of other things that need to change . One , the idea that fast race cars need to be slowed down by running on skinny , hard tires . The justification for treaded tires is that they last longer ( maybe, maybe not ) , and the big one is that they keep the " big motor cars " from hooking up , thereby leveling the playing field . Leveling the field for who ?
Lets take the modifieds for instance . If a modified team decides to go to Cope , or Crume , or Progressive for an engine , so what ? Its legal , so if they have the money to get an engine built by a pro , then let them . Some teams are always going to be faster than the others . Thats what auto racing is , going faster than the other guy . And in my opinion , 2 barrel carbs , and crate motors , and hard , skinny tires aren’t racing . If the rules say that a motor must be totally stock , Cope , Crume , and Progressive can ( for a fee ) make more horsepower by blue printing the motor . So the same teams will still be faster . Chassis setup should play a major role ? Okay , but the biger teams are usually pretty good at that also . Racing is about going faster than the other guy .
And the truth is , racing is only going to be saved by much better payouts . I saw that Bronson had a modified show recently that paid $3000 to win . The weekly shows are going to have to start paying close to that to get new teams onto the track . The money for that is going to have to come from local and national participation . If you see a race on tv from Rockford , or Irwindale , or Eldora , you see billboards and prize money from many different sources . At most of the local tracks here in Florida , you see a handfull of billboards and almost no sponsor money involved . The lap money for the upcoming modified show at OSW should be a corporate name on each lap at $100 per lap .
Clyde Hart bought OSW to put the circle track out of business and that is just what he did.
OSW is a goldmine. It is located in the best market of any circle track in the state. If any track has the potential to attract racers and fans, OSW does. If they opened it up on Saturday and ran it like they wanted it to succeed, it would.
NSS is a dog. It’s too big and too fast for a Saturday night program. It cost too much to race there and it costs too much to wreck because you are going so fast. This is not a track where you can successfully run shows that pay $300 to $500 to win. It just doesn’t make any sense to race there.
NSS should shut down the Saturday night program and run 8 to 10 regional touring programs a year. Then rent the track to cup teams and driving schools during the week. They would make more money.
Here’s the formula that works. If you want racers to race, pay a purse that gives the winner a chance to make his money back. For instance, it cost $1200 to race a late model a night. If you want a full field you have to pay at least $1200 to win.
If you want fans, don’t charge any more that it cost to go to a movie. That’s what you are competing with, not the television. Movie theaters have known for years that they make their money off pop corn and cokes, not the admission.
And don’t worry about your show running too long. Just try to make your show run smoothly. If one fan doesn’t want to stay out past 10:30 no one says they can’t leave but the real race fans, the ones that come every week, will come early and stay as long as you want to race.
Finally, forget all the talk about rule changes. If a driver thinks he’s got a better idea, have him find 3 other drivers that agree and let them start their own class. All rule changes do is make your existing cars obsolete subsequently lowering the car count.
OSW and NSS are dying because the management makes rules to support the people they like but only enforce the rules on the people who they don’t.
I’ve Stayed Clear, But Here Goes -
Its been a while since I have gone to Orlando (and especially through the front gate).
However, the last time I went through the front, I was amazed at the poor appearance of the place. The ticket booth had broken windows and looked like it was about to fall over, the place looked it needed a great ovehaul in the stands as well.
APPEARANCE - APPEARANCE, a family NEW to racing, would not be ones to return (or suggest to other families NEW to racing) if they are not comfortable with the looks of the place or afaid their children would fall through a broken bleacher board / or can’t hear the speakers.
Everyone is speaking about classes, numbers of cars, rules etc… that is on the back side… tracks also need to look at the front side… If tracks don’t make it an interesting/fun night for the fans/families, they are missing half the punch. Putnam has (or had) a nice playground for kids, Bronson had fun houses and such at certain times.
How about this: Every fifth family that goes in (and passes the concession stand area) has their ticket price returned. But it won’t do any good if not locally advertized.
In closing… look at the tracks that have nice appearances, then look at the ones that don’t - which do you think families prefer?
“You Got To Spend Money To Make Money”
OSF: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004:
OSF hit another sore spot for fans and racers alike . The grandstands , the restrooms , the food stands , the retaining wall , the fencing , the pit area , and pit road . I always think of Martinsville when it comes to short tracks looking like they want your business. Retaining walls painted , lettering done correctly , not by a track worker wielding a 4 inch brush and a can of whatever color paint was in the shed . The fans notice these things , because they’ve seen Martinsville on tv and they know how a race track is supposed to look . And now we’ve seen Darlingtons walls , red and white . Looked great .
But Martinsville also has landscaping that is kept green and trimmed . The grandstands always have a fresh coat of paint , and no loose boards or splinters .
Come to think of it , lets just agree to use Martinsville as the model for what a short track should look like . There are plenty of photos of the place on the internet and in books . It would be very easy to see what it looks like and copy it over a year or so , a few things at a time .
the owner
of Martinsville is trying to make money not a tax write off.
I have seen everything from making Orlando dirt to having a Saturday show, a Sunday show, etc. on the board. I am truly sorry that the poster who originally posted this thread was so unhappy Friday night but bad nights do happen. I worked at Orlando for quite a few years and saw the car counts go up to almost 100 a night down to thirty something a night. So we have had good times there and bad.
Yes, Orlando should be packed every Friday night and when I first started going there back in the early 90’s, it had pretty good fan counts as well as car counts. That is when they would run the enduro cars (4 cylinders) and Rose raced and ended up on her roof most of the time. That is where my kids, when they were little, got their first race car ride and everytime after that, Bruce Everett would make sure my kids went with him. They loved it. They would also give away trophies to the kids in the stands. Drivers brought them in when they were overloaded with trophies and the kids were given a ticket as they came in to win one. But most of the time, they had enough trophies to make sure the kids all went home happy.
Clyde was alive then and I once wrote him and asked him to introduce my daughter to David Rogers because she loved him so. Well, Clyde called her out of the stands one Saturday night at New Smyrna and made her day. She got to meet her hero, get a shirt, and ask him questions and that meant alot to a young girl. But Clyde was the man and he made sure that she got her wish.
Back then you could take your coolers in and food and that was about the only way my family could go. We could get the money to get in but not money for food for our crew of 4 kids. We would stop and get bread, sandwitch meat, chips and drinks. And every now and then, we could afford to buy one of the elephant ears they had at New Smyrna which was under the old grandstands. We had a ball and loved every minute of it. I really don’t think we ever missed that many Friday or Saturday nights. We even went to that demo derby that was on tv at Orlando when they use to do that.
Over the years, I have watched her change. I have seen many drivers come and go. When I worked there with Rusty, I have seen the drivers bring in lots of fans when we would do the driver give-away free tickets and then reversed it and did the fans give-away tickets. We would go to local events and restaurants and show off the cars and give away tickets. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t but we did try our best.
Since going to dirt racing in March, I have noticed a few different things between the dirt tracks and asphalt.
1 - There are more open trailers than enclosed trailers which gives the fans a better chance of seeing the cars on the trailers. I don’t know if they do this because they rather spend their money on their cars or what but most of the trailers are open trailers.
2. Fans are allowed to bring in coolers and drinks. They are not forced to buy racetrack food. This does help since many families can afford to get in but not buy food even though it is very reasonable.
3. They have nightly prizes for the fans which they love.
4. They also give them a card that is punched when they come in that earns them free entry for a race. Not sure if it is just a regular race or a special race but I see alot of the fans havng their cards punched each Saturday.
5. They say a prayer before the National Anthem which is very nice.
6. They only give the racers 5 laps of practice and that is it.
7. They have heat races and feature races and still get done at a reasonable time. They give the fans their money’s worth every time.
8. Their payouts are alot higher than most asphalt tracks and they really don’t have that many cars that are wrecked.
9. They only have double file restarts for one half of the feature race and then they go single file for the second half.
10. They appreciate their fans and take time to talk to them and answer questions.
11. They have a tech man who is fair and not connected to anyone at the track. There are no favorites and if you are wrong, you are wrong.
12. All cars must have a receiver and they are in constant touch with the tower. He lines them up, he gets on them if they are jumping the start, he thanks them for coming and thanks them for a good race. But he is in contact with every car, all divisions.
What is the solution for Orlando SpeedWorld, I wish I knew. I gave her many years of my love and I still care about what happens to her. I was there also Friday night and surprised by the low car count and fans in the stands. I know the drivers are disappointed also in the number of cars that aren’t showing up and the small amount of fans. Maybe it is time to start calling the guys and asking them what is up, what it would take for them to come back and race. I really don’t know but I know they are out there.
Pin a medal on Jane, she nailed it! That was a most comprehensive assessment, and I believe it to be quite accurate. I especially liked her observation regarding “giving the fans their money’s worth”.
One note: all of you who think the track is intentionally losing money so it can be a “tax write-off” need to have your head examined.
Yes, times are tough at OSW, but things always tend to go in cycles. I have complete confidence that things will turn around one day. You guys can waste your time wringing your hands and throwing insults, I’m going to work in the garage.
Good points Jane! The main thing we have to remember is, “WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER”. The tracks have to maintain a positive relationship with the racers and the fans and vice-versa.
If you have a racecar, when, if ever, has a track ever contacted you and wondered why you were not participating, or thanked you for your participation. Sure, the track would have to listen to belly aching from 7 of 10 drivers called, but 3 of the drivers would appreciate the personal interest and get the car off the jackstands and onto the track. “WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER”
Same with the tracks relationship with the fans. Why don’t the tracks start some sort of Fan Club. Give fans some sort of voucher when they fill out an informational form. Now, the tracks can email those fans race and event info, promotions, discounts, etc. Maybe fan club members get 20% off front gate prices. Make the fans feel like they are an important part of the show. I would bet that most short tracks have no idea who their paying (present or former) customers are.
It goes the other way as well. I attended a road race at Road Atlanta last week, after every race, on the cool down lap, the drivers would wave at the corner workers to show their appreciation. I’ve never seen this at a circle track.
Right now, there just is not a whole lot of mutual respect among all the players (tracks, drivers and fans) in this sport. The fans feel screwed because they pay money to watch uninteresting entertainment. The drivers feel screwed because they spend thousands of dollars to make hundreds of dollars. The tracks feel screwed because they think that they are providing a multi-million dollar playground for 30 people and their closest friends to play on.
I see something that Jane hit on also… the policy of not allowing coolers in.
I showed up at New Smyrna one time, many years ago, only to find most of the cars pulling OUT of the track instead of going in. Upon walking up to the gate, I was informed that they had just gone to a “No Cooler” policy. Since I was already there, I threw the cooler back in the car and went in… but most of the fans didn’t. They hopped in their cars and left. All these years later, they are still not back.
Lincoln Speedway in PA also tried the “No Beer” policy, and the grandstands were immediately left to look like a ghost town. Fans were seen at other area tracks wearing T-shirts that read “No Drinkin’, No Lincoln”. They didn’t come back until the policy changed.
Whether you drink or not, one fact of the matter is that many people like to spend their Saturday nights out having some beers, and enjoy some cheap entertainment. When you are forced into paying the track for beers, sodas, or food, your evening just became un-affordable. And people don’t show up. And if people don’t show up, where are the new racers gonna come from? Almost every racer, at one time was sitting in the Grandstands, thinking to himself that “Man, I could DO this”. If you never get them in the stands, you will NEVER get them out on the track.
At VSP, my night at the races and a six pack of beer costs me about $16.00. At OSW the costs would be about $34.00. Pretty simple decision to make when on a budget!
Great Post 185
Although a little long I agree with the part its pathetic now, but how about some suggestions on how to make it better? The racers lose money even if they win! I get kicked out of the pits in New Smyrna, because as the pace truck driver says “no none tow vehicles allowed” aven though I personally counted 23 "none tow " vehicles in the pits!!! I have personally spent approx. $ 10,000 in 5 yrs to differant car owners, sponsering a race, and basically none of them have anything to do with me now. Seems when the $ dries up, so do you. Well guess what? Orlando should be filled with wter and stocked with bass. New Smyrna? Wal-Mart might be interested in building a Super-Wal-mart there, great location! All it is now is a tire store. Yeah I expect to get blasted here, go for it, I don’t care. The person I WAS sponsering, or helping to (the last of many) basically told me he was affraid I would get him disquallified if I fought the “no none tow vehicles in the pits”. Well, he doesn’t have to worry about that any more, I never hear from him anymore anyhow!!! But I’ll say one last thing, as long as they allow other “none tow” vehicles at New Smyrna I WILL be one if I want to!!! I BEG them, kick me out!!! And you ask, (what is wrong?), FAVOROTISM!!! I learned, have they??? No, but when the bulldozers come, they will!!
So what is your answer or suggestions for making Orlando better and New Smyrna besides higher payouts which comes from more cars and more fans?
How would you make them better??
We all know the traffic is terrible coming from the west side of Orlando on a Friday afternoon after work. My girlfriend and I don’t have SunPass/E-Pass for the toll roads, so if we want to use surface streets, it takes us over an hour to go the 40 miles or so from this side.
As I understand it (coming from my brother), there’s no more heat races? Features only? So if you get there late, you might have missed half the show. I don’t know. I liked the heat races - if they meant points or starting spots in the features. Start the fast cars in the back.
Let me go into a little more detail:
Heat races - lined up by points, inverted. Fast cars (cars high in points) start in back. 6 laps for Strictlys/Minis, 8 laps for Sportsman/Super Stock/Limited/Modifieds, 10 laps for Super Late Models.
Features - Starting spots determined by heat race finishes, with inverted fields (fast cars in back). 12 laps for Strictlys, 15 laps for Super Stocks/Mini Stocks, 20 laps for Sportsman/Limited/Modified, 25 laps for Super Late Model.
If a driver misses two or more consecutive scheduled regular race events, he/she starts in the back of both heat and feature for the next two scheduled race events.
Next: the fans. Give them their money’s worth. Ten bucks ain’t too bad, but offer some sort of family ticket: say, $30 for a family of four; maybe a $15 “double” ticket (two adult admissions for $15; I know my girlfriend and I - no kids with us - would be able to make it over t here more often if it weren’t for the toll roads).
Allow coolers in - but no glass containers. Offer some sort of “Family” meal combo plan or something. When it costs almost $20 for two people to eat at a race track, I know I’d rather bring my own stuff. That’s almost Disney prices 
Designate a smoking and drinking section of the grandstands. They don’t have to be the same section; or - better yet - designate a “Families” section with NO drinking and NO smoking.
How 'bout a punch-card where every fifth time you come back, free grandstand admission? I don’t think there’s enough race dates to make a ten-punch-card. And I don’t think fans will come back that often if this is something that gets started. It’ll take some time.
ADVERTISE. I realize that this costs money, but in order to make money, you have to spend money. Like I said in an earlier post, I hear Orlando and New Smyrna ads on a Lakeland radio station all the time. And I hardly hear or see anything locally with the exception of Crash-a-Rama. But folks aren’t gonna want to drive the 60-75 miles if there’s no show (entertainment/racing). That, plus the B***H of a drive - again - from west of Orlando. Advertise on a few billboards around town, especially on I-4 down this way (Kissimmee). Advertise in the Sentinel Sports section. Advertise on the four local stations (WFTV, WKCF, WESH, and Fox35). A lot of folks just have basic cable and don’t get BrightHouse. They don’t get them weekly racing shows on TV. I know I talk to a LOT of race fans that come to Disney as guests, and a LOT of 'em are looking to get to a race some time during their vacation. And I tell 'em that SpeedWorld is the only Friday-night asphalt track. Everything else is pretty much Saturdays.
Want entertainment added? Put some media folks in a Strictly or Super Stock, and let 'em eat. Bragging rights and a HUGE trophy. Have a “Media Night”; invite 'em all out to see one of your GOOD shows with SLM, OWM, maybe Sprint cars if they come back.
BRING BACK some REAL Figure Eight racing, with Strictly Stock/Super Stock rules. Add some right-side door bars and maybe a cross-bar to strengthen the cage a little. Or maybe build up a new division with newer-style STOCK cars.
How 'bout a HUGE Super Late Model race that Orlando could call its own? One that should draw a BIG out-of-state field? At the end of the year/season, after the tracks up north have closed. In fact…put the Governor’s Cup back on a Sunday afternoon. Run Friday night qualifying and heat races for the Super Lates at New Smyrna for Sunday’s show (with a support division or two); then Saturday night, run at Orlando - maybe bring back the “Gulf Coast Classic” type; sorta a “preview” of the 200 on Sunday. Make it a 100- or 125-lapper, and of course, run another couple of support divisions, maybe Super Stocks and Sportsman can run in front of their biggest crowd of the season. BUT - run the SLM last, so the fans will stay for the support races. Then run JUST the Governor’s Cup on Sunday afternoon up at New Smyrna.
To add to this part, offer fans some sort of three-day ticket for maybe $40. $15 for Friday’s show at New Smyrna, $20 for Orlando on Saturday, $20 at New Smyrna on Sunday. Maybe a two-day ticket for $30 good at both tracks. Same for the pits; well, not the same prices, but offer the same structure.
Just some thoughts 
Again, the main concern for me, anyways, is that Friday-afternoon traffic. That’s the main reason I don’t get over that way much.
Its all been discussed many times , even in the meetings Robert Hart had with the racers i’m told .
Start the fast cars in the rear , a total invert for ALL races , and do it off of qualifying times each night . Qualifying can be pretty boring , but its part of the race event , the fans can live with it . Fix the speakers at all tracks so the fans can hear all of the qualifying times , and announcers should pick and choose when to announce those times between wide open engines .
All re-starts should be double file .
GET THE LOCAL AND NATIONWIDE COMPANIES INVOLVED . Thats where the increased payouts and co-advertising come in . Realty , hardware , furniture , speed equip . , beer , soft drinks , car dealers , tractor dealers , eyeglass stores , carpet and flooring , local and national eateries , boats , sporting goods , . Every one of those advertise on Nascar broadcasts , and many more . Why aren’t the Florida short tracks getting them involved here ? I know , if its that easy it would already have been done . But i’ll say it again , every one of those business buys ad time on Nascar , so they obviously want to reach race fans .
The times i’ve been to Orlando at any time of the day , the traffic has been brutal . But i know the fans come out for Crash O Rama , so the show just has to improve .
Jimmy has a good suggestion regarding figure 8 racing . Its always been poular .
That was some really good points.
I like the idea of coolers. I also think race tracks need to be more family oriented and start aiming at the younger generations. Next time you are in the stands look around and tell me how many teenagers are there. Not many, most are home playing x-box.
The kids need to be involved more. I know insurance regulations make it hard to do a lot of things but more needs to be done.
I see that someone has decided this thread is a “complaint” rather than a discussion.
I guess it is, but I thought there were some excellent constructive ideas thrown around out there. Not only for OSW, but all the local short tracks. Fans aren’t happy with the show they are getting, and if I was the Promoter of XYZ Speedway, I’d love to hear what my customers want!
HEY - Great Idea Here.
Someone spoke of teenagers in the stands (or not)…
Suggest “FREE ENTRY FOR TEENAGE GIRLS”… when the word gets out… guess who will follow. A few weeks later…“FREE ENTRY FOR TEENAGE GUYS”, see if that brings out the girls.
Hey, can’t hurt to try.
OSF: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004:
(then have a “FREE ENTRY FOR SUPER OLD GUYS”)