Does anyone agree that Al Varnadore and Todd Hutto are running that place in the ground?
Heres some problems I’ve seen
1.) They have the highest priced tires in the State of Florida for every class. LM tires are $165 where you can get the them at Ocala or Volusia for $138. OWM tires are $145 where you can get them for $118.
2.) The LM payout is the lowest in the state, and the run 362 c.i. motors which cost the most of the motor choices ( NLMS, 525, 604)
3.) Every other race track has special races for the “support class” whereas East Bay has one special LM Race, Top Gun Sprints and Reuttimann OWM race. All of witch East Bay doesnt pay the full purse they have sponsor or series pay.
4.) The race track is either black and slick and wear out tires or the wet the thing so much that there is no passing. The last 4 weeks the LM the winner has lead from lap 3 until the checkers.
5.) The car count has sizeably decreased since the beginnnig of the year. Theres a reason for that and its not the economy because those guys are still racing at other tracks.
6.) The crowd size has gone down but atleast 50%. It would be interesting to see ticket sales over the last month.
A thunder stock class running at eastbay would be a good change. Between ocala and citrus there are a lot of those cars within a few hours of eastbay. Just a thought…
Most modified and LM guys have $300,000 haulers. I don’t think the price difference in tires bothers them much.
The 604 is a competitive engine choice at East Bay if you choice to run it.
This one i can’t argue with but I do think there pay out is fair.
Al has said he is trying to keep the track on the moist side to keep tire wear to a minimum and it has worked. As a point to number 1 if he was trying to rip people off on tires why would he be trying to do this?
If you look back at results there car count has been steady. Compared to other tracks East Bay on a bad night has more cars than other tracks on there best night.
Im looking at 2 pics where I won heats in the last 2 months and the stands in the background look pretty full to me.
I think a pure stock/ Thunder car type class would be great for East Bay.
Most modified and LM guys have $300,000 haulers. I don’t think the price difference in tires bothers them much.
The 604 is a competitive engine choice at East Bay if you choice to run it.
This one i can’t argue with but I do think there pay out is fair.
Al has said he is trying to keep the track on the moist side to keep tire wear to a minimum and it has worked. As a point to number 1 if he was trying to rip people off on tires why would he be trying to do this?
If you look back at results there car count has been steady. Compared to other tracks East Bay on a bad night has more cars than other tracks on there best night.
Im looking at 2 pics where I won heats in the last 2 months and the stands in the background look pretty full to me.
I think a pure stock/ Thunder car type class would be great for East Bay.[/QUOTE]
In Reply
1.) I can count 4 OWM and LM combined that have those kind of rigs that run east bay. the rest are regular truck and tag-along.
2.) The 604 WAS competetive when the track got black slick. THe one reason the keep up now is that 3/4 of the field run them. If someone good showed up with a 362 they would dominate right now.
4.) Moist? If moist is running on a track that has standing water on it. Moist as in the packer cars cant even go around the track without the back end coming out? and cars are expected to race on that kind of track? I agree with the tire wear part, but that is not moist.
5.) I just added up the average car count total from march 20. then added up car count from nov 13th. results were 40% down on cars (4 cyl not included).
6.) Win a heat race in the last month? if so tell me what the stands look like.
My whole point is there should be no reason why they dont get 20 cars in every class. So points being they run their own set of rules for each class whereas ocala, volusia, lake city run the same rules for every class and let east bay guys come and run their own rules. An example, the owm run motor rules different then every other track in the state, other outlaw 4’s cant come and run and expect to keep up. people are not coming to see a race with 10 cars in which is the case for LM, LLM, OWM, and O4 most of the time. I will give Al credit for the 4 cl bomber class that run 35-40 every week.
I wish they would do a pure stock class. it would give the 4cyl guys that want to move up a class to run and get thier feet wet driving a rwd car before going to street stock or any other class
This conversation is cool. No stupid talk just a good debate. The car count for East Bay and Ocala this past weekend are almost identical without including the 4cyl Bombers at East Bay. EB averaged 16 cars per class including 14 LM’s, 17 Sprints, 19 Limited Late Models and 15 Street Stocks. Ocala averaged 14 cars per class including 12 Late Models, 11 Hobby Stocks, 18 Thunder Stocks and 15 Gladiators.
I dont see where they are doing such a bad job. Im not downing Ocala in anyway I’m just using them for comparison and its just when you said they was running the track in the ground I know these people and they put alot of effort in this and also it is a main source of income to them. Also on a final point about cars not having the same rules from track to track. The rules East Bay has had in place for there classes have been in place for the most part for a long time. As Al has said a Street Stock from 8 years ago is the same Street Stock raced today. He has not changed rules alot because if a person can’t afford to race for 3 years but keeps his car and then decides to race again its not like he has to start over.
My point for them running it in the ground is this.
In 2006 they averaged:
OWM- 24
SS- 28
LLM- 24
LM- 31 ( ran a b-main every week)
EBS- 14 (this was before top gun)
O4- 17
In 2010?
OWM- 14
SS- 19
LLM- 12
LM- 16 (scott thompson race boost this # by 2)
EBS- 18
O4- 11
The economy is not to blame for this. Simply the racers are tired of inconsistent racetrack. You cant talk to AL about anything b/c he goes Dr. Evil on you and freaks out. Cant talk to Todd because hes so afraid of AL and cant be a man. Al’s own brother wanted out of his % in racetrack (just a hint). Lowest purses, hightest priced tires, no special races…it all adds up. which is why you see the numbers at ocala and volusia around the same now because 3-4 cars at ocala and volusia were once east bay regulars. keith and jackie nosbisch/Phillip Cobb/Hamp Conley/Shan Smith in LM, Jeff Matthews/Hammond/Devin Dixon in OWM.
I’ve watched car and fan counts drop at almost all tracks this year. Can you name a Florida track that has seen an increase in car counts this year? Maybe Auburndale, I don’t know, but I doubt any others. There are other issues, but the economy has to be the biggest reason. It isn’t fair to compare 2006 to 2010 and it’s not fair to compare Ocala, a Friday night track, to any other dirt track in Florida. By the tone of your posts, it appears you have a personal issue with the owners of Eastbay. JMO
I only go to East Bay to watch the sprint cars, but keeping that in mind, I think East Bay does a credible job since every time I’ve been there to watch sprint cars the place is pretty full. Hell, the last time I was there it was downright packed. In this day and age, to get that many fans into the stands for a sprint car race, they are doing something right.
Car counts have decreased considerably, Auburndale included… All you have to do is talk to people… Many guys are either broke or broke or both… If your car takes a crap late in the season and you aren’t in the middle of the point chase in your class, many are just hanging it up until next year or quitting altogether… Some have just run out of money… At this time of year a lot of guys are just trying to make ends meet financially while trying to save enough $$$ to give their family a decent holiday… From what I can gather, things are looking up a bit for 2011, but we’ll have to see…
In reply to all. The econmoy was worse in 2006 in the state of Florida than it is right now. Gas was $3.56/gal in Nov. 2006 compared to 2.77 right now. My argument is this…I agree you cant compare East Bay to Ocala. But I can compare 2006 to 2010. The biggest thing I see with car drop off is the track, not the economy. Small factors that add up to larger wholes. East Bay has the biggest metropolis to draw from being located in Hillsborough County and close to Tampa, nearly 1.5 million people live with 30 miles of east bay. No other track in the state has that type of population that close to their track. But those other tracks have just as many cars as a whole as east bay. Hope that you are getting my point. East Bay should have way more cars for a local saturday night show compared to the other dirt tracks. However they dont and it is my opinion that the track management is to blame. Will my opinion change anything…prob not so I’ll leave my last post about this and move on. When new management comes to run it then we will see who was right. I dont have a beef against them personally and they are prob nice people away from the track, but their business practices are in question when they are at the track.
You forget to mention, with all of that population in the Tampa area, there’s also a million other entertainment options too. Beaches, casinos, major-league sports, the cruise industry, fishing, 4 star restaurants, etc… That’s a lot to compete against, which is one of Orlando Speedworlds problems also.
Name me one thing that the City of Ocala has that is an entertainment draw. Same thing in Bronson, Auburndale, Punta Gorda, Inverness, and most others. Many of the most successful racetracks are out in the middle of nowhere, and have NO competition for entertainment.
Just because there are a lot of people in the Tampa area, it becomes TOUGHER to get those people… it does not make it EASIER.
In 2006 Citrus averaged 25 - 30 per class per night.
In 2006 Auburndale had 18 - 20 cars per class per night
In 2006 CCMP had 15 - 25 cars per class per night and When these tracks had Late Models they had huge fields.
These are tracks I know for sure because I raced at them.
None of these tracks have anywhere near that car count these days. Yes East Bay had a bigger car count then but it was the same track with the same owners treating everyone the same way which is they are treated fair.
Also on a dirt track if you want to have a good track for the feature you have to suffer a bit in the heat race but it is hardly ever a single groove track and the feature races are no where near boring.
As for the economy being better now than in 2006 that is wrong. In 2006 we traveled and raced at 3 different tracks and won at all of them because I had enough money then to race the way I needed to. This year we moved to dirt because I couldnt afford a new set of tires every 3 races.
The economy IS FAR IS WORSE THIS YEAR. Poeple have lost their jobs (this wasn’t happening in 2006) their losing their houses, insurance costs are much higher. And so on. Need I say more?
havent been to a regular east bay show in a while, but they are pretty much the only game in town this saturday… i guess we’ll see. the track surface has always been a challenge there, but when i’m spectating, ill take anything over dust.
Ok well I’m done arguing it because now we are comparing east bay to asphalt tracks, sunsets and casinos. My opinion was that the track management was to blame and using usatoday.com and irs stats I supported that then economy is not to blame Job rate is up .2% in central florida according to unemplyment office not down like mr. williamson has stated. 3-4 cars per class are running at other tracks and prob 3-4 more stay home because they dont like the track management either. Just my opinion. My whole point for this post was dont want to see another dirt track close up over something that is easily fixable, but I’m getting irrevelant arguments so I’m ending this debate.
No we are comparing 2006 to 2010. I used asphalt tracks because i seen it first hand as i stated i raced at those tracks. East Bay’s car count is the best in the state and we go to several tracks during the year when we are not racing and trust me there fan count is the best around by far. East Bay is not going anywhere anytime soon.
You’re not getting irrelevant arguments, you just aren’t getting getting people to agree with you and that seems to be frustrating you. I think you really do need to put East Bay into perspective with the other tracks to get a global picture of what is going on in this state. But you seem to be more frustrated with the late model class more than anything else, so I can’t help you there.
To your points #5 and #6, the last time I saw a Top Gun Sprint Series race there the joint was so packed you would have thought the Dixie Chicks were going to be performing naked. For free. And that was more people than I saw for the King of the 360s show back in February.
Every year the rumor comes around that someone else is going to take over (David Reutimann, anyone?) so you may get your wish yet.
I can’t really say they are running the place into the ground, but I will say they need to get a grip on the rules. When there is a paper form of the rules that clearly state what is allowed and what is not and they change it whenever it fits for them, that is an issue. I don’t even think its so much the changing of the rules, but the attitude that comes with it. And I definitely think they should take into count the opinions of the drivers of the class when they set the rules. A good example is the Street Stock class, where most of the drivers will agree they want to use aftermarket tubular upper arms on the cars, but the track refuses to change the rules, yet when the World Street Stock race comes they are allowed. Or the rule to have a full firewall and floor, when a lot of the cars are now built with a drivers compartment, that make that rule unnecessary. And every class has those things that are no brainers to the drivers, but fall on deaf ears with the track.
I never really thought it was expensive to race there, it is every racers choice to buy tires at the track or not, so as long as its not mandatory its fine with me. I all but understand the need to make a profit to improve the racetrack and if I see improvements I will never complain about the costs.
I do however believe they can increase the payouts. I know we all don’t race to make money, but when you spend your hard earned cash to build a car its always nice to see the appreciation when you do well. The payouts at the track are ridiculous, and they are not much higher than they were 10 years ago. So it costs 4 or 5 times more to run, but the payouts haven’t really increased.
I would also like to see some more special races. Like in the bomber class, there definitely should be a special race for them. The big races sure do bring out a lot more people, and if you take into account, that with every racers usually comes one or two pit crew and a few fans, it pays off to do these special events.
I have been to most of the dirt tracks in the area, and East Bay isn’t the best, but they do a decent job. Every track has its negatives and positives, but if the track is willing to work with the drivers, I can’t see why they couldn’t be better. I went to Volusia and was so surprised how well they prep the track, and how nice it was to watch the racing there.
[QUOTE=Frasson118;56122]You forget to mention, with all of that population in the Tampa area, there’s also a million other entertainment options too. Beaches, casinos, major-league sports, the cruise industry, fishing, 4 star restaurants, etc… That’s a lot to compete against, which is one of Orlando Speedworlds problems also.
Name me one thing that the City of Ocala has that is an entertainment draw. Same thing in Bronson, Auburndale, Punta Gorda, Inverness, and most others. Many of the most successful racetracks are out in the middle of nowhere, and have NO competition for entertainment.
Just because there are a lot of people in the Tampa area, it becomes TOUGHER to get those people… it does not make it EASIER.[/QUOTE]