At what point are we over-teched?

Even the readers of this board can agree on one thing: inadequate, biased and unfair tech angers racers and hurts car count. Its been a problem that we’ve struggled with for generations in our sport.

Recently, there have been concrete steps made to address this situation here in Florida. I am referring to the “Ricky Brooks” approach to tech, which consists of a series of inspections where there is no middle ground, everything is black or white, so do it my way or you are out.

I have not settled on an answer yet, but the question is “have things gone a little too far?” Have we reached the piont where some racers will stay away because of the unrelenting hassle? Could be. Since I don’t run a SLM I really don’t have a dog in the fight, however I am an interested observer.

You can make a case for both sides. Some of the problems last weekend were cut and dry, like the 51* for example, while others were border-line and subjective. I can’t discount the possibility that personalities and egos enter the tech picture. They usually do.

So I am keeping an open mind on this one. The Snowball Derby is coming up and we’ll see if there is chaos at that event, or if it runs smoothly. The World Series at NSS will be here before we know it, and I am sure no one wants to see so many DQ’s like we had last time.

Do we return to the bad old days of favoritism and selective tech? Continue with the present government style hassle, or maybe find some middle ground?

  • The 51 was told several times over two days to change the nose, but they refused. Too bad, the driver put on an excellent show and has a very bright future.

But why were they allowed to “pass” tech before the race… Can you think of the fiasco if Nasse had won? If the nose was wrong they should not have been allowed to start… Was their “punishment” the waste of money on tires, fuel and engine wear?

If a car that did not pass pre race tech and is allow to start the race and for some reason changes the final results buy causing a wreck that takes out someone that had a chance to win or place good, how is that fair.

If that car DIDN’T pass Tech, he wouldn’t have been allowed to start. Someone gave that car the thumbs-up before being allowed into the starting line-up in the first place.

If that nose was illegal on Friday, and illegal AFTER the race, why was he allowed in? Looks to me like someone in the Tech dept was sleeping on the job, and Nasse lost a boatload of money because of it.

Someone needs to man-up and admit THEY screwed up… much more than Nasse did.

While I think going through tech twice before a race is redundant, it is not tech’s duty to “pass” cars before a race. They check certain things before a race ie…body rules, weight, left side etc…just because you pass tech before a race doesn’t mean you are good after.
The pre race tech is more of a favor to let you know what might be wrong with your car, not to approve it.
If you are told something is wrong with your car it is your resposibility to fix it and have it approved by the tech man.

To Boneman’s point of keeping people away. It probably keeps a few away because it is not easy to keep a body in tolerance over a years worth of racing and it is a hassle to have to move things a half inch here and a 1/4 inch there just to be able to race.

Most of this crap started with the ABC Body rules…thanks Don…just have height, width and length meaurements along with weight and left side and lets go racing…bring back the innovation of racers…

My two cents…

Our car went to pre qualifying tech and was wrong in couple areas. He had to push back out and fix to go thru again

Abc

The ABC body rule i though sucked but it was one of those things that people like u wanted. All the cars North and South the same. The cars in the north were ABC and didnt want to race with the outwaw South. So trying to do the right thing i went with it.
In that rule there is a weight penilty he could have taken before the race.
I new it was my falt .come on get a life.

Ever since we started with ABC, we have had ZERO problems we couldn’t fix with a 7/16 wrench. ASA was very strict on some body stuff, to the point of annoying, but it kept us all pretty level. The only problem was once again unequal enforcement AKA favoritism. cough Preston Peltier cough

If you follow the rules and set up the body right, you are good. Ricky does it his way, and most appreciate the extra effort he puts in. To your example of “what if Nasse had won?”, I believe it happened 2 years ago at the Derby. Augie Grill won the race, hands down best car all day. Post-race tech, after trophy and victory lane, Ricky found electric blower fans aimed on the wheel rim. Rule book clearly said “NO ELECTRIC BLOWERS, NO DUCTS ON WHEEL OR TIRE”. Ricky warned the team twice pre-race, they failed to remove them, they were DQ’ed. End of story, sorry thems the rules. Did it give him an advantage, probably not. Neither did Nasse’s nose I would guess, but he was warned, thems the rules.

Like Fred said, it’s not his job to make your car legal. He’s there to help you make it legal for after the race.

pitcrew and Fred…

Exactly.

I dunno.
Seems a little whiney to be bitchin’ about tech not doing a good enough job on one hand…and then on the other bitch some more because they did do their job…kinda got em’ comin’ and goin’ there. Like ya said, Rex, usually the problems start when personalities and egos get in the way.

I’m all about doing away with favoritism in the tech line and one way is to be a stickler for the rules and not leave yourself open to criticism for letting one guy float in the gray area while another giving another no consideration at all. Sounds to me like Ricky Brooks knows his shiznit and has no problem telling a big money racer or some ham and egger, whether he be 12 years old or 50 to pack sand if they can’t (or won’t) follow the rules like every other team.

For years…no EONS…racers have wanted to lay all the blame at the feet of the tech man. Too many times I’ve seen a competent tech man get soured on the job because some idiot promoter/track owner over-ruled his decision and did whatever the hell they wanted, regardless of what was in their OWN track’s rulebook! Who the hell would want to open themselves up for that kind of crap? If you ask me, THATS what would keep more racers away from a track than having a fair, but strict, tech man would.

As far as this Nasse kid…and I wasn’t there, but relying on the good field reporting done by Jerry and the gang, I would have to say…that he got pretty much what he deserved. Sounds like he was “advised” over the course of two days that he needed to change the configuration of his nose so as to conform with what the tracks rules were. He elected not to change it to see if they could back Ricky Brooks into a corner and they failed.

Big time failed.

They (well…his Daddy) have been spending an obscene amount of money the past two years with plenty of high caliber, race-bred people on their payroll so you can’t tell me that whomever mounted the body on their car didn’t know what he was doing and innocently mounted the nose in an illegal (mind you, these are ABC template controlled bodies) fashion by accident. And that NO ONE on that massive payroll possessed the ability to make the changes to that nose that would bring him into line with the rulebook.
I mean…come on.

I imagine if there is one thing that would piss off a tech man it would be to have some Daddy Warbucks racer thumbin his nose at him and his rulebook. Jerry, I wouldn’t worry about the “money” that Team Nasse screwed themselves out of…I have a feeling they don’t count on purse money to make it to the next race.

Again…Fred and pitcrew…spot on IMHO, guys.

All in all it was a great race…something in it for every race fan. Especially the DRAMA…
Glad I opted out taking my Sportsman. Their race did not even start till midnight…well past my bedtime…:smilie_bett:…LOL
-:smilie_abcfra:-

Right about 1 thing its work to mount it wrong it takes a lot of time. the body goes on easy and meets the temp. But agin tell him to fix or take the 50 lb pen or dont run the race .dont wait till its over if u know.
As a offical u are responsible not to have a car in the race that u know is going to be dqed.everything that car doese during the race is changing the outcome of that race and tell me you think thats ok.

Don62

[QUOTE=pitcrew;56018]Ever since we started with ABC, we have had ZERO problems we couldn’t fix with a 7/16 wrench. ASA was very strict on some body stuff, to the point of annoying, but it kept us all pretty level. The only problem was once again unequal enforcement AKA favoritism. cough Preston Peltier cough

If you follow the rules and set up the body right, you are good. Ricky does it his way, and most appreciate the extra effort he puts in. To your example of “what if Nasse had won?”, I believe it happened 2 years ago at the Derby. Augie Grill won the race, hands down best car all day. Post-race tech, after trophy and victory lane, Ricky found electric blower fans aimed on the wheel rim. Rule book clearly said “NO ELECTRIC BLOWERS, NO DUCTS ON WHEEL OR TIRE”. Ricky warned the team twice pre-race, they failed to remove them, they were DQ’ed. End of story, sorry thems the rules. Did it give him an advantage, probably not. Neither did Nasse’s nose I would guess, but he was warned, thems the rules.

Like Fred said, it’s not his job to make your car legal. He’s there to help you make it legal for after the race.[/QUOTE]

Sorry but I have to disagree with your statement. It’s the techs job to find things wrong before the race. And if he does, and they don’t fix it. It shouldn’t be allowed to race. And no you don’t get your money back! It’s not fair to the other drivers nor the fans watching the race. It’s against the rule so they can’t race period!

We stood around tech quite a bit Friday and Saturday, just to watch and learn the process. I have to say that was almost worth the price of admission, it was very interesting. We asked several questions, and even though we were not racing, they were answered courteously and clearly. One question I asked that has me a bit confused is that I asked if the cars would have to go thru body template tech after the race, and I thought the answer I got was no, that it would not really be possible, because there is usually so much bumping and banging that goes on. It seems as if this was not the case, since they dqed the 51 for the nose infraction.

[QUOTE=Boneman;55941]Even the readers of this board can agree on one thing: inadequate, biased and unfair tech angers racers and hurts car count. Its been a problem that we’ve struggled with for generations in our sport.

Recently, there have been concrete steps made to address this situation here in Florida. I am referring to the “Ricky Brooks” approach to tech, which consists of a series of inspections where there is no middle ground, everything is black or white, so do it my way or you are out.

I have not settled on an answer yet, but the question is “have things gone a little too far?” Have we reached the piont where some racers will stay away because of the unrelenting hassle? Could be. Since I don’t run a SLM I really don’t have a dog in the fight, however I am an interested observer.

You can make a case for both sides. Some of the problems last weekend were cut and dry, like the 51* for example, while others were border-line and subjective. I can’t discount the possibility that personalities and egos enter the tech picture. They usually do.

So I am keeping an open mind on this one. The Snowball Derby is coming up and we’ll see if there is chaos at that event, or if it runs smoothly. The World Series at NSS will be here before we know it, and I am sure no one wants to see so many DQ’s like we had last time.

Do we return to the bad old days of favoritism and selective tech? Continue with the present government style hassle, or maybe find some middle ground?

  • The 51 was told several times over two days to change the nose, but they refused. Too bad, the driver put on an excellent show and has a very bright future.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention any place in general, but here in the past month or so a Street Stock with a 400 was allowed to roll through tech and it clearly states “No 400’s” in the rules. This same tech man then tosses another racer for a minor infraction? Where does it end?

over tech

when you run a 100 lap race,pay 50.00 entry fee, gate to get in plus slab fee. for 1000.00 to win then top 3 have to pull cyl. heads.

[QUOTE=Osmosis Jones;56027] As far as this Nasse kid…and I wasn’t there, but relying on the good field reporting done by Jerry and the gang, I would have to say…that he got pretty much what he deserved. Sounds like he was “advised” over the course of two days that he needed to change the configuration of his nose so as to conform with what the tracks rules were. He elected not to change it to see if they could back Ricky Brooks into a corner and they failed.

Big time failed.

They (well…his Daddy) have been spending an obscene amount of money the past two years with plenty of high caliber, race-bred people on their payroll so you can’t tell me that whomever mounted the body on their car didn’t know what he was doing and innocently mounted the nose in an illegal (mind you, these are ABC template controlled bodies) fashion by accident. And that NO ONE on that massive payroll possessed the ability to make the changes to that nose that would bring him into line with the rulebook.
I mean…come on.

I imagine if there is one thing that would piss off a tech man it would be to have some Daddy Warbucks racer thumbin his nose at him and his rulebook. Jerry, I wouldn’t worry about the “money” that Team Nasse screwed themselves out of…I have a feeling they don’t count on purse money to make it to the next race.

Again…Fred and pitcrew…spot on IMHO, guys.[/QUOTE]

Your post makes a lot of assumptions. Nasse has posted an explanation on his website, that seems (somewhat) reasonable to me. He got dq’d, but I don’t believe they did it intentionally, “thumbin his nose” at the tech guy, like you suggested.

"Although Nasse crossed the line in second place, he was
eventually disqualified for a rules infraction involved the nosepiece of his #51 Super Late Model. That development left Nasse confused after the race, but still respectful of the technical inspection staff led by Ricky Brooks.

"Ricky Brooks commented that we didn’t fix the nose after being warned about it on Friday, but we added a valence extension to the car after that,? said Nasse. ?We went through qualifying tech and were fine with our added piece. After the race, we had a little front end nose damage that pushed the nose down a little and caused it to wear off on the track.

?After a rough season, we wanted to be vindicated with a strong finish and possibly a win. We got DQ’d for this although some cars had no front nose at all and body damage that would pass the templates and they didn’t get DQ’d. We respect Ricky Brooks and appreciate what he is doing for our sport, but think there should be an appeal process. We would never go against anything he warned us about and put a car on the track that wasn’t approved and legal.?

Racefan…I know you are taking this off their site but the “we added the valance” is the whole purpose of the rule…The nose has to be mounted at , I think, 11" from the ground…that is so you can’t just drag off the nose and gain more travel…and that is exactly what happened…I did not see this but from what i was told Ricky Brooks measured the nose on the front stretch after the race and threw them out right there…

Don, I was just bustin your balls on the ABC body thing…I don’t like it but I get what you did…I wish we would go back to at least the outlaw type bodies or even the old wedge bodies…

Mr. Williamson…your theory would entail going over every car front to rear bolt by bolt , piece by piece like a POST race NASCAR tech is…you would need10 tech guys and 2 days to do this. It has to be on the racers to build a car that is legal. I know it isn’t always easy but they wanted big boy tech and they got it…they know what to expect coming in…

Racefan…

Yeah, I made an assumption or two about Nasse being disqualified…but I DID preface it by saying I WASN’T THERE and that I was relying on the reports of people who WERE THERE and whose judgements I trust pretty much 99% of the time…

Yeah, I read the account on his website, too…a few minutes after I had made my post. Now…do you think if it had played out that they were actually trying to sneak something by Ricky Brooks (or even just hoping that he would overlook the legality of the nose arrangement because they made some changes) that they would really post it to their website and brag about it? Or do you think, in some kind of crazy, off the wall, type of promotional scheme, that his website is going to show them to be honest as angels who would never ever ever even think about cheating in a race car? Hmmmmmm. Just think about it for a minute.

My comment about the tech man being nose-thumbed was not aimed entirely at Team Nasse but more so at any team who would do that. For example, at our track we used to have a guy who owned three cars who felt that the track should give him special consideration because of his “status” and the money he spent every week…and, unfortunately, the track owner did just that. Which completely undermined the tech man and any decisions or rules that he tried to enforce. And that’s what I meant by that.

Now.
Having seen the Team Nasse/Stanford operation in action at various racetracks, I do stand by my ASSUMPTION of their huge, monetary outlay for the past few years. I’m pretty sure they ain’t shoe-stringin’ it. Do you think I’m over-assuming that? Or would you agree that they could of bought a small, third world country with what they’ve spent on a sub 16 year old, Truck/LLM/ASA Crate/SLM racing effort in a few short years?

Let me know.

Oh Mattchew!

Plus… you forgot to mention the Hooters Cup Team…