Just to clarify, when I said ‘close to an hour’, I was referring to round-trip time. It’s realistically about 30 minutes each way.
And a lot of it is 2 lane road. I too am glad for your good out come but I am still waiting to have a track to respond regarding their insurance requirements. At this point the only thing I know is it costs more to go in the pits.
Typically an ambulance wouldn’t have to come from a hospital though, they are staged around the county/area they are in charge of covering. Ideally, you get one that is close to you when the problem arises. It would be nice to have alot of things but, onsite EMT and fire suppression tools and teams are a must.
Transport could be better in some circumstances, but typically what i have seen is by the time they have extricated the driver safely - the ambulance has already been dispatched and is close. They dont like to yank a guy out of there if he is hurt seriously without stabilizing him and maybe cutting some roll bars anyhow.
No doubt that it would be better to have transport capability onsite at all times, but it isnt going to happen with legislation and costs.
I swear i remember them landing the medivac chopper at NSS on the front stretch one time.
I think I see where some of the confusion is coming from.
If the EMT’s are on site, they can do their thing, but not allowed to transport. An actual ambulance CAN transport, but I’m sure is much more expensive.
It depends who is hired for the job…
I can see where a Track Ambulance is not allowed to do the transportation, but if it was fully licensed one in the first place, they could do it.
And is absolutely NOT the law in Volusia County, as both NSS and Volusia are in the same county. VSP has (had) the full-blown crew on hand, while NSS has EMT’s, but relies on outside transport.
NSS CAN get quick response from local hospitals & ambulances that VSP doesn’t have access to.
But to think its against local laws to have an ambulance on hand that is licensed to handle the job, is straight up un-true.
It all depends on who you hire to handle the job.
I don’t usually insert myself in these debates but this is a subject dear to my heart. I have been involved in racing fo 61 years last feb. When I raced when some one was hurt I guess the race director patched him up. I don’t remember but now days its different. I raced with T-shirt genes and tennis shoes. Things have changed. All that being said I have been at tracks that had a fire truck and had ambulances. In fact I was present at a track where we had a bad fire and I think the fire people did not know where their butts were. 2nd’ly I have been at tracks many times where drivers were pretty banged up and the ambulance stabilized the driver and waited for bay flight. Our safety folks are trained in Motor sports rescue, they are trained in fighting motor sports fires! I was at a track last year when a pro truck caught on fire and the infield crew seemed to have no clue what they were doing. NSS and Desoto I can attest to have the compenent personell to take care of most any situation. I have been to tracks that have ambulances that belong to the track but they can’t by law transport.
Thats my 2 cents and I am stickin to it!
[QUOTE=Phil Jacques;144801]I contacted one of the local tracks here and it costs them $1500 for the evening to have an ambulance on site. I assume it may not be a whole lot less down there.
[/QUOTE]
In Pinellas County where Showtime is located it costs 115.78 per hour, with a 3 hour minimum to have a real ambulance waiting on-site. So for a 4 hour program this adds less than 500$ to the night’s costs. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Years ago we would say if Frank Wood or David “Tank” McDonald were at the track don’t let the rescue people there touch us. Get Frank or Tank! This past January a year ago I was in a very bad auto accident. I don’t remember all that happened (I was taking a nap people told me), but Orange County Fire Rescue transported me to ORMC. Don’t know how long it took them to get there, or anything at all, but a 4 mile ride to ORMC was right at $1000. But that included Hospitality services such as Oxygen, I.V. fluids, monitors and of course the Lights were on!
I have to put my two cents in. I was an AEMT III for over 25 years. I know northern racing and Florida racing. I never went to a track in the north where there were not rescue personnel and an ambulance on site, even 40 years ago. I have been to Florida for a while now and have seen quite a few tracks with a minimum of one EMT on site and fire extinguishers on a tow truck. I’ve also seen some tracks like East Bay, Volusia and NSS that do have the proper setup. I am also aware of a couple of deaths at a Florida track that may have been saved if the proper equipment and ambulance were on site. We’ll never know. They were heart attacks and they were fatal. The tracks didn’t have AED’s or even oxygen or IV’s available. I doubt any EMT has that at their disposal, and I’d be willing to bet none of the tracks have drugs in their track ambulance either. BTW, an EMT without equipment is not much better than a boyscout with first aid training. I’ve been there done that. Also, the rapid transportation isn’t usually that important, unless it’s severe trauma. Most advanced ambulances can do almost as much as can be done in an emergency room. It wasn’t unusual for me to spend 45 minutes at a heart attack scene before even transporting. I could do everything the ER could do, with the exception of administering morphine and inserting a pacemaker. I can guarantee none of the track ambulances are set up to do that sort of thing. If a track has a full arrest and needs to call an ambulance and there is no one to defibrillate, chances are the victim will not survive, even with CPR performed. It just takes too long to go and call, have an ambulance dispatched, and wait for the ambulance, unless it’s parked outside. Phil, keep saying what you’re saying. I’m usually one who does and I’m just tired of it.
Not unreasonable at all, so 3pm until Midnight would run $1050… And most likely aid in lowering the insurance rate charged to the track which in the long run could offset some of the cost.
I am a huge advocate of safety in and out of the racecar. If you were to look in my racecars, you will find a full 3 nozzle halon system, ATL bladder fuel cell, full containment seat, collapsible column etc. Safety is #1 always and should be for everyone. Many people seem to take for granted the danger of this sport and the consequences of not being properly prepared…
New question
What equipment does the EMT that is at the track have at there disposal? Do they have and AED (automated external defibrillator), and oxygen? Can a EMT start an IV? Just curious?. Vince
This is probably one of the best threads I’ve ever seen on here!
Maybe some of the people that NEED to know this are watching, and have the power & common sense to make it change.
Just because its ‘up North thinking’, doesn’t make it the wrong thing to do.
The tracks up there have done it the right way for 40 years… It’s time for Florida to do the same.
I am going to do my best to see to it that something is done to change this somehow so that there is a fully equipped Fire Truck and Ambulance on site at every track across the state of Florida for every weekly event. Don’t care how it has to happen. I will figure out a way… I know enough people in FL that I should be able to get through somehow. The safety of the racer is of utmost importance. We are out here risking our safety and lives (whether track owners want to believe that or not) to put on a show for the fan. Without the racer, there is no Race Track.
Raise the admission price, both front & back gates by $1.00, with the EXPRESS written disclaimer that the extra dollar goes directly towards having an ambulance on site. I doubt there would be very many people that would complain if they knew that $1.00 is a small price to pay for a service that you, or a loved one might need tonight.
For every dollars brought in OVER the cost of full-blown emergency services, create a fund to purchase other safety items as they can be afforded.
ONE dollar, per week, per person, could eliminate ANY reason why NOT to go the safest route.
But be upfront & honest of where that money REALLY goes. I’m as sceptic as anyone when it comes to gouging anyone for an extra dollar if it isn’t going to the right purpose.
Not one person would complain? Don’t kid yourself.
OK Lurkin… ya got me. Of COURSE someone would find a way to bitch & complain…!
It shouldn’t take the fans to correct it, but it does need correcting however it happens.
I think it’s funny…
…when I hear people say they won’t race at a track that has sub par medical and firefighting equipment on hand.
NOT ONCE! have I ever witnessed anyone parking their racer or boycotting a track when theory suddenly became reality. I’ve been to dozens of tracks and seen the complete spectrum of track’s levels of service. From pickup trucks with water extinguishers to off duty FIRE/EMS personnel in a local departments reserve units to full-blown, trained and certified safety professionals whose actual JOB is track safety.
AND STILL NEVER SEEN A RACER STAND ON HIS LOFTY PRINCIPLES AND REFUSE TO PULL ONTO THE TRACK.
We always seem to gravitate to these types of discussions every time somebody gets hurt or killed during participation in what is by definition, a dangerous and exciting sport. Hell, half the time I can’t believe insurance companies even bother with underwriting race tracks. Sooner or later the odds catch up and tragedy strikes. It happens. It also happens on the roads leading to and from the track. It happens at the restaurants we eat at AFTER the races. Sometimes tragedies happen right in our own back yards.
My question is this: Where are those first responders and ambulances and EMT’s and firefighters then?
The answer: The same place they were when the races were going on. At their stations or in their rigs enroute to a call or returning from the previous call OR sitting in a diner trying to get some food before they get that call from dispatch telling them to respond to the track for some dummy who ran a perfectly good vehicle into an intersection and collided with another vehicle while blood-thirsty fans cheered them on. And, just like the previous call at the intersection in town where a little old lady had run the red light and t-boned a pickup truck with 6 teenagers in it, causing them to flip and roll into a telephone pole requiring a lengthy extrication operation…they will don their gear and break out whatever tools they will need to remove that race car from around the driver.
Emergency Medical Technician (Basic)
An EMT-B
Lets look at that for a second.
An EMT is a person who has been trained in the basics of being a first responder, effective CPR and precious little more. This is called Basic Life Support (BLS) techniques. An EMT cannot push life saving drugs via an intravenous (IV) line (that’s a PARAMEDICS job) nor is he trained to observe and decipher what an EKG readout means (even though it’s not hard and most EMT’s do) and to respond accordingly with what is called Advanced Life Support (ALS) treatment. Again, that LIABILITY tumbles up to the Paramedic level.
MOST firefighters working today are at least EMT-B level. Some are even Paramedics.
For some reason, most tracks’ insurance riders mandate a minimum requirement of having an EMT on hand during events. TRANSPORT is and has ALWAYS been another issue entirely. In most counties, all patient transport is performed strictly by that counties ambulance service as THEY are the only licensed and certified Paramedics and EMT’s that are recognized by the Medical Director. Who, after all is said and done, is the actual AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) for all medical calls…INCLUDING the ones that occur at the local crash em’ up track.
ALL THIS SAID…those folks who are there working as “track rescue” are a secondary safety net for racers and the people in attendance. We are all responsible for our own well-being and safekeeping. If we choose to strap into an 800 HP, mechanical beast and rolled over the wall and into a race with 20 other beasts…I’d say we just signed our own little “hold harmless” agreement. If I haven’t made sure that I’m as safe as I think I need to be, then shame on me.
At that point, anything more that the track does is a plus.
Okay…I’m getting tired. If I get time I’ll ramble some more tomorrow. I have to get up early and play Firefighter/EMT at work.
[QUOTE=Osmosis Jones;144839]…when I hear people say they won’t race at a track that has sub par medical and firefighting equipment on hand.
NOT ONCE! have I ever witnessed anyone parking their racer or boycotting a track when theory suddenly became reality. I’ve been to dozens of tracks and seen the complete spectrum of track’s levels of service. From pickup trucks with water extinguishers to off duty FIRE/EMS personnel in a local departments reserve units to full-blown, trained and certified safety professionals whose actual JOB is track safety.
AND STILL NEVER SEEN A RACER STAND ON HIS LOFTY PRINCIPLES AND REFUSE TO PULL ONTO THE TRACK.
We always seem to gravitate to these types of discussions every time somebody gets hurt or killed during participation in what is by definition, a dangerous and exciting sport. Hell, half the time I can’t believe insurance companies even bother with underwriting race tracks. Sooner or later the odds catch up and tragedy strikes. It happens. It also happens on the roads leading to and from the track. It happens at the restaurants we eat at AFTER the races. Sometimes tragedies happen right in our own back yards.
My question is this: Where are those first responders and ambulances and EMT’s and firefighters then?
The answer: The same place they were when the races were going on. At their stations or in their rigs enroute to a call or returning from the previous call OR sitting in a diner trying to get some food before they get that call from dispatch telling them to respond to the track for some dummy who ran a perfectly good vehicle into an intersection and collided with another vehicle while blood-thirsty fans cheered them on. And, just like the previous call at the intersection in town where a little old lady had run the red light and t-boned a pickup truck with 6 teenagers in it, causing them to flip and roll into a telephone pole requiring a lengthy extrication operation…they will don their gear and break out whatever tools they will need to remove that race car from around the driver.
Emergency Medical Technician (Basic)
An EMT-B
Lets look at that for a second.
An EMT is a person who has been trained in the basics of being a first responder, effective CPR and precious little more. This is called Basic Life Support (BLS) techniques. An EMT cannot push life saving drugs via an intravenous (IV) line (that’s a PARAMEDICS job) nor is he trained to observe and decipher what an EKG readout means (even though it’s not hard and most EMT’s do) and to respond accordingly with what is called Advanced Life Support (ALS) treatment. Again, that LIABILITY tumbles up to the Paramedic level.
MOST firefighters working today are at least EMT-B level. Some are even Paramedics.
For some reason, most tracks’ insurance riders mandate a minimum requirement of having an EMT on hand during events. TRANSPORT is and has ALWAYS been another issue entirely. In most counties, all patient transport is performed strictly by that counties ambulance service as THEY are the only licensed and certified Paramedics and EMT’s that are recognized by the Medical Director. Who, after all is said and done, is the actual AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) for all medical calls…INCLUDING the ones that occur at the local crash em’ up track.
ALL THIS SAID…those folks who are there working as “track rescue” are a secondary safety net for racers and the people in attendance. We are all responsible for our own well-being and safekeeping. If we choose to strap into an 800 HP, mechanical beast and rolled over the wall and into a race with 20 other beasts…I’d say we just signed our own little “hold harmless” agreement. If I haven’t made sure that I’m as safe as I think I need to be, then shame on me.
At that point, anything more that the track does is a plus.
Okay…I’m getting tired. If I get time I’ll ramble some more tomorrow. I have to get up early and play Firefighter/EMT at work.[/QUOTE]
[B]As I said previously, Up here it is a REQUIREMENT by law that an ambulance be on scene. I sent texts to many of the local big name drivers I know and every one of them came back and said they would wait for an ambulance rather than take the risk of one not being there if needed… You guys down there have been bread to believe it’s okay not to have one on scene, I would park my car on the trailer and sit in the stands before I get on that track without what I and many others believe to be proper safety equipment on site. We take it for granted until we are the ones who need it. What if it was your son or daughter in need of an immediate transport where seconds count? Where would you stand then?
Your argument about the same thing could happen in your own back yard or the roads on the way to the track is completely irrelevant. A race track is a private business. Therefore, they are providing a service. It is their responsibility to provide the safest environment possible for all competitors which includes having adequate Fire and Safety personel and equipment on site. Just having an EMT on site to me, is far from enough. I doubt any on site emt/paramedic is equipped with all the proper tools that would find in an ambulance as was mentioned earlier. Can they start an IV if needed? Do they have an AED should that issue arise?
When I strap into my car any given Thursday Friday or Saturday night, I have confidence in my facility that if something were to happen, I would receive the best and most immediate care humanly possible. The release we sign at the gate is a waiver to remind us of the dangers and free the track from liability in case of injury. It does NOT release them from responsibility. [/B]
Here’s another question… Do the tracks have the Jaws of Life on site? Anyone know? In the event of a neck or back injury, it’s best to lift a driver straight up out of the car if they are unable to get out under their own power. twisting them and turning them to get them through the window involuntarily can only hurt them more and cause more problems… This is something that having a properly equipped fire/rescue truck on site can also help in addition to properly trained and equipped emts and paramedics. Are the tracks equipped with proper backboards for such an incident? How about neck braces? 
Trauma can happen at any second at the track. The grim reality is, it could be any one of us at any moment. Preparedness saves lives. I’m not gonna keep preaching this. Argue me all you want with your own little convoluted beliefs trying to justify why it’s okay to not have an ambulance and firetruck on scene. Doesn’t bother me.
I was intrigued by Wingers comments about heart attacks. I also appreciate Jacques passion on this subject. Where am I going with this? If you culled all of the EMT, fire, and safety issues into a requirement few if any short tracks could handle the over head. The issue about cardiac care where there is a crowd is not just racing but all sporting events and could extend to charity and community activities. This being said what I fear more than a fire or a heart attack is the possibility of the legislature looking at these issues and taking it upon themselves to “solve” the problem. I can assure you only the tracks with national interest level events could foot the bill.