How many Limited, Pro, and Supers are JUST sitting as garage trophies?

[SIZE=“4”]Back in the day 2007 (When we started Charlotte County Motor Sports Park). :huepfen024:I had just finished the FAST Extravaganza (for two years the Late Models with GM Crates).:ernaehrung004:The problem in 2006 was everyone was only getting 10 Supers, 10 Limited,10 Pro Late Models, and 16 FAST Late Models. :huh:
The formula we had used Limited, Pro, and Supers all using the GM Crate with different weights. :huepfen024:So looking at owning a Race Track we needed to get all the Late Models together so we took and allowed different engine, chassis packages. With weight (left and over all). :sport009:The first race we had 48 (DAMN this was working) and the rest of 2007 we averaged 36 cars. The FAST LAP was won by every type and with the races as well. Where are all the cars today? Anyone know??? [/SIZE]

[B][I]I agree 100%, and that is good for everywhere. No car(s) should be turned away.

With + or - 50//100 pounds, and couple of % leftside, harder compound tires, amazing how we can level the playing field.

The big question is: do we want to?

Because anybody in the short track world knows this, but not that many are willing to do it.[/I][/B]

Andre I think we are on the right Track.

[SIZE=“4”]The reason I put the post out there was to see if anyone jump in.:o Garage trophies are to dang expensive to just let set.:huh: I was talking to Gary at Citrus and he asked me how I set it up (it was before he was my GM). So if anyone has a trophy setting and would like to discuss how to make theirs more competitive just call or post me. :huepfen024:My # is still the same 813-817-7223. :sport009:Citrus is willing to try to get the counts up. Heck I told Gary after last weekend that there where three classes that were with in a 1/2 second of each other. Each had 5 to 8 cars in each class. Why not start all three classes in the same race, but pay the same money to each class. It pays out the same and you have 18 to 21 cars on the track at the same time.:sprachlos020: The Fans would love it any you could make a BIG DEAL out of it. Just two of the many things that would increase back and front gate sales. Just my 2 cents worth…[/SIZE]

I’ve always thought there were too many similar divisions in FL, combining them could be a great thing for many reasons. I think also, once you start combining those divisions, you may see guys in the lower division of the combination start changing their cars to be a little more competitive and with time it may unify the entire division into one instead of multiple combined. Of course it would also help bring fans in. A good on track product will always draw more fans than 5 car single file parades.

Combining classes has been a long standing topic of conversation in Florida. But it always seems to end up with the slowest cars wanting to drag the faster cars down to their level instead of the slower cars spending some money to get faster. And the faster guys refusing to reverse their modifications to go slower.
I haven’t seen much about the supers from CCMSP. That place turned into such a disaster starting in 2008 that the racers probably burned their cars so as not to be reminded of the place.

Getting calls about leveling out the Late Models.

[SIZE=“4”]Thanks to those who have called. :huepfen024:It’s sounds like we have found some of the Late Models that are not racing. :sport009:I will be at Citrus tonight to talk to those who can make it. :huh: Before you can make rules first thing is to define the different types of cars and combinations of motors, trans, brakes, and others.
Limited Late Model
Pro Late Model
Super Late Model
:(Remember the idea is to make those cars that have been parked to express why, and what does it take to level the field. We are in the entertainment business. A 10 Late Models is a good show, 20 is even better. The oldest formal is car count will drive Fan count.:ernaehrung004:
Please email me at with a list of your ideas. Or just call 813-817-7223.
Again THANKS!!![/SIZE]

A latemodel should be just that. Not 6 versions of them. that started by trying to create more classes and now it has reared it’s ugly head.

set a wheel base, width, height rule and 9:1 engine…GO!

“The oldest [known sure bet] is car count will drive Fan count.”–Bobby D.

That is factual, sir.


[QUOTE=OldSchool+;156682]“The oldest [known sure bet] is car count will drive Fan count.”–Bobby D.

That is factual, sir.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=“4”]Sure looks and sounds like some don’t feel the same as some. :huh:All I know is if a car’s owner doesn’t have a level playing field you only have what you got. :oI think everyone WIN’s if the car count are good. :sprachlos020:If 8 to 10 is good for you. You must not be a Track Owner. Or like small payouts.:ernaehrung004:[/SIZE]

Great meeting last night at Citrus…

[SIZE=“4”]The Super Late Model Teams hung around after the Drivers meeting for a open discussion about combining the different types of Late Models (with only six car they did agree that at the present they have low car count):sprachlos020:. Some remembered the CCMP days with 40+ Late Models. Also they raised some concerns that they had $6000.00+ in their shock package and they welling to get rid of them (question was if everyone ran the same shock package of a inexpensive one):anim_buttkick:, but did come up with some good ideas:light:. We have their attention. And they agree that Track can’t pay more if the Fans counts don’t improve and recognized car count drive the Fan counts:o. So the answer is? What?? So we will keep asking and refine our thinking of the rule package that would get those garage trophies out of the from behind the door and back on the Tracks. So if you have an idea or direction call me. Sometime the board have those who haven’t and answer and just wants the counts to stay the same:teufel021:. Call me at 813-817-RACE (7223)!!! [/SIZE]

two, count 'em, two cents worth


>First, some of the best racing ever, IMO, was '64 chevelles with big blocks. Iron heads, stock-ish frames. It would suit me fine if there was a field of them next weekend. It wasn’t the speed, although they were the fastest late models to date, it was the competition.

>I would gather everyone that has anything that looks like a late model. Ask them how much they want to spend on a motor. I am thinking lots of folks could figure out how to swing $6-8 grand, and that is still a lot to deal with if one blows up. Write rules accordingly. Deal with shocks, clutch, and rear end–and tires, similarly.

>Similarly to a parent, do what is best for them–not what a few of the high dollar guys “want”.

>Try to get a serious commitment from as many as you can, and then move forward.

I suspect the class will look a lot like sportsman. Call them late models (no offense, Scotty). Just…late models. The fans like to hear “late models”. If there are 20 of them and they are close, no one will care about the details.

Probably their will still be a “Super” Late Model big money class somewhere, and that is okay too. At this point, they are great for “special” big money races–and that is what it takes to support them.

The sport needs a field of '64 Chevelles again–every week–that as a fan you can pretty much count on when you are making your “what are we gonna do tonight?” decision on Saturdays.

OldSchool should of been at Citrus D.A.A.R.A. was in the House!!!

[SIZE=“4”]You would of LOVED it. The old cars put on a heck of a race.:aktion033: You will be able to see it on NBC Sports “Mobil One The Grid” sometime in May. They had a GREAT time filming Short Track racing from Florida. Gary open his doors and they had a blast!!! :huepfen024:One of the Supers from last night did say they have 4 or 6 or 604 Crates and four cars that would fit in the class. I think the Tracks would be wise to have the Winner get fair share of the money, but the field get the Loins share of the purse.:cool: Like $150.00 or $200.00 to start depending on sign in at the back gate (that takes the green) say 8 on a Team should get more than a Team with two. :pMakes more for the ones that bring more (just a thought). Again Oldschool’s on track. Keep thinking and put it out there.
Thanks for your thoughts.:ernaehrung004:[/SIZE]

Announcing the “All LateModel” Class


Another off the wall idea.

NO rules!

Let them bring anything they want on whatever tires they want. Hobby Stocks to SLM.

Decide what your minimum speed is. Qualify them. Invert the field, including “promoter’s hunch” option to decide who is sandbagging and move them back–like up to a half a lap back.

And/or–like in “bracket” drag racing, if you “break out” and run a lap “X” amount faster in the race than your qualifying lap you are disqualified.

Pay a decent but medium purse. Enough to where it looks good to what you decide is the “average” racer but not enough to get the ultra high dollar cars to turn out–and if they do, starting position and a field to drive through will be a challenge.

25-30 laps. Caution laps do not count. 1 green/white/checker. Short enough to make it tough to get from back to front, short enough to motivate them to go hard every lap.

I agree, the field should get the “lion’s share” of the purse. Getting and keeping “The Field” is the object, methinks…

Had a interesting call…

[SIZE=“4”]Got a call from a racer that has a Limited, iron headed motor, with Howe “Limited replacement front clip”, Big Spring style and was told it doesn’t fit the rules at many of our Florida Tracks.:blink: This is exactly what I am wondering myself (how many of theses are sitting with a car cover over them). When we made the CCMP Late Model rules that car would fit and be competitive for the Win. :aktion033:We had several that ran regularly and several won races in 2007 & 2008. :anim_buttkick:The Pro Late Models look like a good match for the class. Just my thoughts.:aktion033: Remember Car count drives Fan count and Tracks are very aware of both. Back gate and Front gate are the BOTTOM LINE. Anyone else please call me at 813-817-7223. I hate watching 6 to 10 cars races. Citrus is looking at the answer to this question. [/SIZE]:auto003:

WE have three of them sitting bathing dust!! Any buyers??? :slight_smile:

The playing field will never be level. The only guys complaining about the shock packages are the guys who don’t have them. And if the shock packages are eliminated the guys will find something else that they don’t have so it too must be eliminated. Write a good rules package that addresses everything in the beginning, then racers who don’t have what the big money teams have will just have to do what they can to compete. Otherwise, they’re always going to want to change the rules to benefit their combo.
Track owners shouldn’t be track owners if they can’t or aren’t willing to put up the money for a first class show. This ridiculous insistence that if the front and back gates don’t bring in wheelbarrows full of money then the payouts will be low has to be stopped. Any business owner not willing to dip into his own pocket if needed to upgrade the customer experience isn’t going to have many customers.
This idea seems to be lost on race track promoters and owners. Fresh paint and lettering on everything, clean modern restrooms and concessions, grass instead of weeds, clean pit areas where you aren’t forced to rent a decent place to park your race car, PA systems that actually work, clean weed free parking lots for the fans, lights that actually work for the track and the parking lot, fencing to protect fans…that’s what the track owner should be providing. If he can’t afford it, then he should let the lease go to someone who can. If he can afford, but refuses to, then he shouldn’t be surprised when he has no fans in the stands.

The payouts really haven’t changed over the past 20 years or more. And in that time, race track car and fan counts have been high, and low. Yet the payouts never really increased. Until track owners start bringing in sponsors like Aarons, then the situation will never get better. And there are lots of local and national companies out there who sponsor NASCAR, IRL, SCCA, NHRA, IHRA, ARCA. Why can’t local short tracks figure out how to bring those dollars to their tracks to pay bigger purses. Not just one or two of those sponsors, but dozens.

Another call about a level playing field.

[SIZE=“4”]Just got off the phone with a racer that has raced for over 50 plus year in Late Models. He suggested to look up Tom Curley Series with a GM Crate motor, $150.00 claimer shock package, and other rules that level the field. :auto003::auto003:The car count is huge. :cool008:Matt I think you need to buy a track and show us how it’s done.:aktion033: Call me I have a idea for you. Again 813-817-7223. Looking forward to your call.[/SIZE]

I don’t doubt that i could do a better job than many who have already struck out. Because they all did things exactly alike and where are they now? In fact, a number of guys on this site could probably do fine with owning a race track. It isn’t science, and it isn’t business. It’s entertainment. Some of us fans realize that, most track operators do not it seems.

I don’t think he is going to call you, Bobby

I’ll be happy to call him Bobby. Or anything else he likes.
Yes, the Tom Curley model works perfectly. His series has been around a long time, i’ve never understood why Florida tracks ignore it.