You’d have better luck getting Elvis on the phone than a race track owner. A recorded message maybe, in some cases a secretary if it’s the right time of day and right day of the week. But having a conversation with a track owner is pretty unlikely. And what exactly would you like me to tell the track owner? That he needs to pay bigger purses? That he needs to advertise his races in new and effective ways? That he needs to bring in sponsors to help pay the bills and increase the purse? That he needs to quit forcing the racers to buy track tires and gas while BSing them that it’s paying into their points fund? That he needs to dig into his own pocket if needed and paint the damn walls, paint the restrooms, fix the PA system, fix the scoreboard, and give the racers a decent pit area without charging them for slabs? You mean i should tell them that.
If there’s a track owner dumb enough not to know all of that already, i’d sure be wasting both our time by trying to explain it to him.
Since you brought it up though, be sure to tell any track owner you might run into that this message board is one of many ways to find out what people think of his track, his racing, his rules, and his track employees. A track owner would have to be pretty dense not to be interested in what the fans and racers are thinking. Of course, i guess there are some owners who couldn’t care less what the fans and racers think.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;157166]Matt,
Just an observation, not a condemnation. Nor meant to be divisive.
Certainly not meant to be offensive. While I am thinking about it, if anyone ever feels slighted send me a pm, nothing is worth feeling bad about.
Remember, it takes a village to run a racetrack.
That and a guy with deeeeeeeep pockets![/QUOTE]
Not taken as a condemnation, not taken as anything more than a comment.
“[One would think that] this message board is one of many ways to find out what people think of [an owner or promoter’s] track, his racing, his rules, and his track employees. A track owner would have to be pretty dense not to be interested in what the fans and racers are thinking. Of course, i guess there are some owners who couldn’t care less what the fans and racers think.”--Matt A
Perhaps it could have a positive effect. Of course, there are those that say track owners are driven to close tracks due to negative things said on the boards.
Personally, I agree with the “couldn’t care less” part. My belief is that they are not insensitive, just driven in one direction by their own vision.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;157167]You’d have better luck getting Elvis on the phone than a race track owner. A recorded message maybe, in some cases a secretary if it’s the right time of day and right day of the week. But having a conversation with a track owner is pretty unlikely. And what exactly would you like me to tell the track owner? That he needs to pay bigger purses? That he needs to advertise his races in new and effective ways? That he needs to bring in sponsors to help pay the bills and increase the purse? That he needs to quit forcing the racers to buy track tires and gas while BSing them that it’s paying into their points fund? That he needs to dig into his own pocket if needed and paint the damn walls, paint the restrooms, fix the PA system, fix the scoreboard, and give the racers a decent pit area without charging them for slabs? You mean i should tell them that.
If there’s a track owner dumb enough not to know all of that already, i’d sure be wasting both our time by trying to explain it to him.
Since you brought it up though, be sure to tell any track owner you might run into that this message board is one of many ways to find out what people think of his track, his racing, his rules, and his track employees. A track owner would have to be pretty dense not to be interested in what the fans and racers are thinking. Of course, i guess there are some owners who couldn’t care less what the fans and racers think.[/QUOTE]
Your opening statement says it all. You assume you can’t talk to a track owner. You never tried. You assume to know everything tracks should be doing. Yet you’ve never tried that either.
If you want something to talk to a track owner about, talk about how to put fans in the stands. If you can help them figure that out, all your other dreams of prospering short tracks could be possible.
HOWEVER!!!
Knowing as much as you do, you obviously know nothing about racing history other than the NASCAR years. In the beginning, racetracks were built to give the (already existing) racers a place to race among other reasons. Everything that happened after was each track owners preference. It was, is and always will be a hobby for the racers and the owners. They can play as much and as hard as they want to when they want to. And if they choose to keep their car or track parked, that is their hobby, NOT their business. You are convinced short track racing is about money. It has NEVER been about money to real racers and track owners. They race because they love it, not because they can make a ton of money doing it. There is already a different part of their life, (this is going to hurt a little) one you don’t know about, that pays their living expenses and provides their quality of life. The smart ones keep them seperate and won’t leverage one against the other. Unfortunately we see too many that have.
Geez Tim, this entire thread has been about putting fans in the stands. Your reading skills could use a lift. I’ll recap the conversation for you.
There are no fans in the stands because there’s nothing to see. There are no fans in the stands because many tracks are in such poor shape they’re on the verge of being condemned. They got that way because many track owners were too near sighted to invest in the infrastructure. As the tracks crumbled, the owners did what in their mind was the logical thing, and increased the back gate prices, started charging for places to park your race car, added fees, forced racers to buy track only products, and upped the front gate prices, concession prices, and cut track staff.
Of course the real answer was to find non racing related sponsors to bring in money. Similar to the opening post concerning the Orlando soccer club. Those guys went out and got sponsors, the very same sponsors available to OSW for the last 20 years. So why do you suppose the soccer club could get sponsorship from T-Mobile, the Orlando Airport, and the City of Orlando, in lees than a year, while OSW couldn’t in 20 years? That airport has been there a long time. They were willing to sponsor soccer for probably a million or two. Why weren’t they sponsoring OSW for 50,00 per year? T-Mobile has been around for a long time. They wrote a big check to the soccer club, why haven’t they ever written a smaller check to OSW?
But most track owners aren’t sophisticated enough to know how to bring in sponsors. And in keeping with their short sighted views, they refused to spend the money to hire someone to go out a get sponsors. I know some tracks have marketing people on staff. But most don’t.
Fans aren’t in the splintery, wobbly grandstands because racers aren’t in the muddy pit areas. Quit screwing the racers, bring in sponsors to pay higher purses, and give the fans a nice place to sit. Do that, and the problem is solved. At least do something about both, and the problem is well on the way to being solved.
“In the beginning, racetracks were built to give the (already existing) racers a place to race among other reasons. Everything that happened after [like rules and classes] was each track owners preference.”–Tim
Interesting point.
I remember those days, and as now, each track largely made their own rules. Again, similarly, they must have been close because they were able to throw the Guvnor’s Cup and similar event, but by and large it was the same cars coming to each track every week.
Now, it’s late models one week, maybe modifieds the next and sprint cars the third. --And that is at a few select tracks.
The others (as has been stated) have many classes of a few cars.
I think steps have been made in the right direction with the 750 tire, but really–gimme (affordable) late models, modifieds, and hobby stockers and I am good.
3 Classes, lots of cars, lots of framming, and you will soon fill the stands while paying reasonable purses.
Plus, here is some (probably condescending) math:
3classes x 10 cars = 30 pit gate team purchases.
10classes x 3 cars = 30 pit gate team purchases.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;157178]Geez Tim, this entire thread has been about putting fans in the stands. Your reading skills could use a lift. I’ll recap the conversation for you.
There are no fans in the stands because there’s nothing to see. There are no fans in the stands because many tracks are in Sichuan poor shape they’re on the verge of being condemned. They got that way because many track owners were too near sighted to invest in the infrastructure. As the tracks crumbled, the owners did what in their mind was the logical thing, and increased the back gate prices, started charging for places to park your race car, added fees, forced racers to buy track only products, and upped the front gate prices, concession prices, and cut track staff.
Of course the real answer was to find non racing related sponsors to bring in money. Similar to the opening post concerning the Orlando soccer club. Those guys went out and got sponsors, the very same sponsors available to OSW for the last 20 years. So why do you suppose the soccer club could get sponsorship from T-Mobile, the Orlando Airport, and the City of Orlando, in lees than a year, while OSW couldn’t in 20 years? That airport has been there a long time. They were willing to sponsor soccer for probably a million or two. Why weren’t they sponsoring OSW for 50,00 per year? T-Mobile has been around for a long time. They wrote a big check to the soccer club, why haven’t they ever written a smaller check to OSW?
But most track owners aren’t sophisticated enough to know how to bring in sponsors. And in keeping with their short sighted views, they refused to spend the money to hire someone to go out a get sponsors. I know some tracks have marketing people on staff. But most don’t.
Fans aren’t in the splintery, wobbly grandstands because racers aren’t in the muddy pit areas. Quit screwing the racers, bring in sponsors to pay higher purses, and give the fans a nice place to sit. Do that, and the problem is solved. At least do something about both, and the problem is well on the way to being solved.[/QUOTE]Give it a rest already. Everyone has explained to you why OSW wouldn’t get the same sponsorship as the Orlando FC, but you’re too damn dense to understand it.
The fact that you think T-Mobile would provide sponsorship to a small time track in Bithlo for 50k further proves the point that you are either A) A complete jackass with no business sense or B) You are trolling everyone on this board to the moon and back.
Just accept it, you are wrong. Racing isn’t what it used to be, and regardless of what you think, people will still be racing whether you come out and spend your $12 to get in or not.
Don’t leave us in suspense, is it A or B?
Look in your heart for the answers, young grasshoppa!
“The fact that [Matt still would] think T-Mobile would provide sponsorship to a small time track in Bithlo for 50k [after it has been explained otherwise] further proves the point that…” –JC26
…that Matt still believes it could happen.
Like Ron Reagan (!) said, it will be “The Shining Track upon a Hill”
D-d-d-dats all folks.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;157184]Don’t leave us in suspense, is it A or B?[/QUOTE]For now, I’m going with the latter. Because there is no way anyone can be stupid enough to fall into category A and have everything laid out in front of him and still think there is a valid argument.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;157188]“The fact that [Matt still would] think T-Mobile would provide sponsorship to a small time track in Bithlo for 50k [after it has been explained otherwise] further proves the point that…” –JC26
…that Matt still believes it could happen.
Like Ron Reagan (!) said, it will be “The Shining Track upon a Hill”
D-d-d-dats all folks.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, but Matt didn’t say that. Matt said that the potential for a T-Mobile sponsorship ( and other sponsor potential ) for OSW was available for 15 years. But OSW, and every other track, never took advantage of it. Nor the potential for sponsorship from the local airport. But the brand new soccer team sure did. So here we are today with OSW pretty much closed, many other tracks close behind, no cars in the pits because purses are too low, no fans in the stands because there’s no show anymore. I’d say all of those facts are related.
Is that your final answer?
Look JC, as a woman, you should certainly be able to see the lost value in not having sponsors. You see them at the supermarket everyday and the difference they can make. It’s no different for the tracks. The more sponsors they have, the more money they have to improve the show and the venue.
Matt, I was trying to cut you some slack on your “vision”, but did not mean to misquote.
You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I just will have to disagree that those big fat sponsorship plums are out there but no one cared to ask…
I haven’t asked Burt’s old squeeze, Loni Anderson, for a date in the last 15 years, but that doesn’t mean her fine self was/is available… 
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;157200]Matt, I was trying to cut you some slack on your “vision”, but did not mean to misquote.
You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I just will have to disagree that those big fat sponsorship plums are out there but no one cared to ask…
I haven’t asked Burt’s old squeeze, Loni Anderson, for a date in the last 15 years, but that doesn’t mean her fine self was/is available… [/QUOTE]
Possible dates are just like potential sponsors, " If you don’t ask, you’ll never know for sure".
Indeed, and am happily married to someone that is Loni quality–and I did ask, but still feel that is a viable analogy.
Neither are reasonably achievable, much less a “lay-down” (pun intended).
Hell, if there is that much coin laying on the table, go for it, sir. Clearly Ozzy will take your/their money. In fact, there should be enough left over for you to make track improvements, take a vacation, or feed the homeless.
You could have a class of Prius-es. In fact, excepting the personal explosion danger for the “competitors”, I would pay to watch a Prius demo derby.
Could be part of your powerpoint presentation to AT&T: 6 fans, one wants a Prius demo derby.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;157199]Is that your final answer?
Look JC, as a woman, you should certainly be able to see the lost value in not having sponsors. You see them at the supermarket everyday and the difference they can make. It’s no different for the tracks. The more sponsors they have, the more money they have to improve the show and the venue.[/QUOTE]
In theory that’s right, but again, we’re talking real world scenario, not the cloud 9 Harry Potter world that you live in.
A huge corporation like T-Mobile or any other billion dollar corporation would NEVER sponso r such a small venue like local short track racing and especially not for 50k. The return on their investment isn’t there. Rick Bristol was all but selling his soul to get sponsors and I think he was looking for the 10k range, and I’m not even sure he got that.
I just don’t get how hard it is for you to either put up or shut up. If the product that the racers or track are putting on isn’t appealing to you anymore then either go do something about it or move on and find something else you wanna do.
I feel like I’m beating a dead horse telling you to make an effort on talking to businesses. My guess is that when you’re in a crowd of people, you’re standing in the corner sucking your thumb not saying a word, but when you’ve got a keyboard and anonymity you sing like a mockingbird. So the likelyhood of you ever doing anything more than flapping your fingers is slim and none.
Matt, I GUARANTEE that any track owner in Florida would write a contract with you giving you 10 to 20 % of any sponsor partnerships you bring to their track. So if you can wrangle that $50K from T Mobile you’re looking at $5-$10K in your pocket. Then you could go buy a race car and help provide the entertainment that will draw in more fans. HERO!!!
I have talked to 100’s of corporations about sponsorships for our race team. From racing local to regionally to Hooters to Craftsman Trucks…none of them wanted any part of anything less than NASCAR …I did the demographics, TV exposure, even had appearances set up in every town Hooters raced in with customer contests…NO THANK YOU!!! Now I am not the greatest PR/Marketing guy but I’ve done ok for myself and family. I have an idea, if you will.
Give it a go and see what you come up with. Somehow I know you will come up with a reason you won’t.
I give Matt a thumbs down. Anybody else got the balls to chime in?
[QUOTE=fred23;157207]Matt, I GUARANTEE that any track owner in Florida would write a contract with you giving you 10 to 20 % of any sponsor partnerships you bring to their track. So if you can wrangle that $50K from T Mobile you’re looking at $5-$10K in your pocket. Then you could go buy a race car and help provide the entertainment that will draw in more fans. HERO!!!
I have talked to 100’s of corporations about sponsorships for our race team. From racing local to regionally to Hooters to Craftsman Trucks…none of them wanted any part of anything less than NASCAR …I did the demographics, TV exposure, even had appearances set up in every town Hooters raced in with customer contests…NO THANK YOU!!! Now I am not the greatest PR/Marketing guy but I’ve done ok for myself and family. I have an idea, if you will.
Give it a go and see what you come up with. Somehow I know you will come up with a reason you won’t.[/QUOTE]
First, i hope you don’t equate individual racer sponsorship ( for a pretty much unknown racer, no offense meant ) in a local setting, to get the same attention as a track. The local track, good ones anyway, offer the corporate sponsor far more exposure than one average local racer could give them.
I’m not the greatest PR/Marketing guy either, it isn’t my job to be. I have a full time job. It’s the track’s responsibility to bring in sponsors. Or just keep getting the money from the back gate like always.
Either way, i’ll be in the stands every weekend as long as there’s a race program worth watching.