double file restarts?

I was watching an old video on YouTube from Desoto Speedway. It looked like the early 80’s and was a late model race. A few things I noticed:

  1. The stands where full, and I mean full.

  2. Billboards lined the track, with advertisements.

  3. The car count seemed to be between 35–40 late models!!

  4. Single file re-starts, and on every restart they were not tearing up half the field. Lots of side by side racing through out the field, after the re-start.

My point is, I truly believe the car count and fan count would be much higher, if all the track went back to single file re-starts. Too many cars, In my opinion get wrecked on the re-starts, which in turn causes low car counts. Low car count= low attendance. Vince P.

Vince, counter point: single file restarts = low fan attendance.

Per other threads, there are many other factors in play, including:

>We look at phones now, not racecars.

>The cost of motors and shocks is far higher, relatively speaking, than it was then.

>The field is not as close in speed, front to back, as it was then.

Single file restarts suck. If too much stuff is getting torn up, the blame goes entirely to the drivers behind the wheel. Racers start EVERY race next to someone else… but somehow their talents are depleted after they do it the initial time? Can’t manage to do it again without wrecking?
That falls entirely on either a lack of skill, lack of patience, or over aggressiveness. It’s NOT fault of the policy…

I would be willing to bet a lot of the restart wrecks could be avoided if these tracks would do like the rest of the country and start treating the high line so there is a second usable groove. Tracks all across the country do it, so why not you guys? I’ve seen some videos where it’s usually the guy on the outside trying to get to the inside line where the wreck starts. If you could actually race the outside, you would likely see less of that.

And besides, I’d rather see 10 cars side by side than 20 in a parade. Especially on asphalt that’s exactly what you get.
Sorry… not interested in a parade.

Showtime is doing a phenomenal job on treating the high line…believe it or not, the high line is becoming the preferred line there.

That is absolutely awesome to hear. More tracks need to do that! It not only gives the drivers a 2nd groove to race but provides more of a show for the fans when you can run side by side. Double win. Eventually both the on track product and seats in the stands will increase.

the past

Frasson 118, why do you think the stands were so full (at Desoto in the 1980’s), if single file restarts are so bad?

A-dale 13 cars (supers) 3/28/2015

New Smyrna 9 cars (supers) 3/28/2015

Desoto (pros) 7 cars 3/28/2015

Desoto had more cars in the one race, then 3 track combined. (1980’s)

The purses looked decent for all 3 races, Just not enough cars, I was simply trying to come up with one of many solutions to get the racers back. I would assume many racers just cant afford to fix all the damage incurred in the re-start crashes? You blame the racers, but what I see is one car making a bad or aggressive move, and destroying half the field.

I also think making the low budget teams buy 4 tires is keeping the car counts down also. Just my 2 cents, Vince

[QUOTE=turnleft;157338]Frasson 118, why do you think the stands were so full (at Desoto in the 1980’s), if single file restarts are so bad?

A-dale 13 cars (supers) 3/28/2015

New Smyrna 9 cars (supers) 3/28/2015

Desoto (pros) 7 cars 3/28/2015

Desoto had more cars in the one race, then 3 track combined. (1980’s)

The purses looked decent for all 3 races, Just not enough cars, I was simply trying to come up with one of many solutions to get the racers back. I would assume many racers just cant afford to fix all the damage incurred in the re-start crashes? You blame the racers, but what I see is one car making a bad or aggressive move, and destroying half the field.

I also think making the low budget teams buy 4 tires is keeping the car counts down also. Just my 2 cents, Vince[/QUOTE]

My .02 on why there are so few cars per division in a lot of cases… Tracks like Desoto who have 17 different divisions with no real reason to. There are too many split divisions because people cry and cant keep up so the liberal mentality is lets make everyone happy and create a division for these guys and it keeps happening over and over. I laugh my ass off when I see a Desoto ad with Pure Stocks, Strickly Stocks and Bombers on the same night… IT’S THE SAME GOD DAMN DIVISION!!! Put them together, make one set of rules and you will have 15-20 cars. DONE! Do it for the 4cyls too… Rookie 4s, Minis, Mod Minis etc bring them all together you will have 15-20 car fields every week. It’s just ridiculous to sit and watch 4 divisions of the same car run 5 car races and go “gee I wonder how we can get the car counts up”… Get rid of the liberal mentality in FL and car counts will grow. There are plenty of cars right now. You can’t please everyone, those people need to either deal with it and make their cars better or drop to a division they can truly afford. Race within your means and if you want to be in a particular division then don’t complain that you cant afford it. And I am sorry to the super guys, but the same can be said with regards to the PLM/SLM conversation across the state. Granite State Pro Stock series here in new england runs cars identical to SLM and identical to PLM competitively together on tracks from 1/4mi to 5/8 mile high banked and flat. Find a happy medium and do some give and take and you will get your car counts back. The answer is right there in front of everyone but everyone keeps sticking with this let’s make everyone happy bs. Everyone will not always be happy and as long as people continue to cater to everyone it’s gonna stay how it is. This is exactly why Scott and I pushed the tire deal down everyones throat. Look at NSS reaping the reward so far with 19 cars per event in the Sportsman class and healthy Super Stock fields also. It doesn’t happen over night but what I speak of WILL help. /rant

Sorry… Had to… This is a ridiculous discussion.

Vince… every track fuller stands and fuller fields in the 80’s. It was more affordable to the racers and fans had fewer entertainment choices.
It’s an apples versus onions comparison.

Every track up north runs heat races, not qualifying (yawn), and every race has double file restarts. It works like that in everything from Street Stocks to Sprint cars. And they don’t tear the shit out of the entire field each week.

The mentality is different. Not that the talent level is any higher, but I do believe they race with more respect for each other up there. Most of those racers work hard on their cars, not sitting in the lounge of the toter home while the hired crew does their thing on Dad’s checkbook.

Jacques,

Nice shot of your engine after you snuck some “Waltrip boogety juice” in the tank. :mad:

[QUOTE=OldSchool+;157345]Jacques,

Nice shot of your engine after you snuck some “Waltrip boogety juice” in the tank. :mad:[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha!!! :aktion033::auto003:

[QUOTE=Frasson118;157341]Vince… every track fuller stands and fuller fields in the 80’s. It was more affordable to the racers and fans had fewer entertainment choices.
It’s an apples versus onions comparison.

Every track up north runs heat races, not qualifying (yawn), and every race has double file restarts. It works like that in everything from Street Stocks to Sprint cars. And they don’t tear the shit out of the entire field each week.

The mentality is different. Not that the talent level is any higher, but I do believe they race with more respect for each other up there. Most of those racers work hard on their cars, not sitting in the lounge of the toter home while the hired crew does their thing on Dad’s checkbook.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your entire post, Jerry. Well, except I have to respectfully disagree about the respect thing. I find, at least from my experience, everyone as a whole races each other with more respect here in FL than in Southern New England. I wouldn’t think twice about using the ol’ bump-n-run move at Stafford. Nor would I complain about it being done to me (as long as we both made it out of the turn). For the most part, that’s just not acceptable down here. I have to say I appreciate that (even though I got quite good at “massaging” my way by people up there). Every year “up nawth” I had to reskin my crumpled ride. Down here I have only replaced 6 body panels in the last 4 years (and two of those were this year solely to make the car look “perfect” for the beginning of the season). I think whether you are north OR south three factors come into play with restarts and wreckin’. #1, how two groove is the track? One groove leads to chopping from the outside to get in the preferred (only?) groove. #2, size of the field. A bigger field always increases the riskiness of the restart. Missed shifts, napping, vapor lock, etc. leads to people “not going” and more cars makes it messier. And #3, to reinforce your point, win-at-all-cost-no-patience racers (more likely than not, little rich boys who’s “Daddy’s gonna git 'em to NASCAR”). Fortunately the Dad’s of that mentality usually skip my Sportsman class. The young men who DO run Sportsman seem to all get the “respect” concept and are great to race with. It’s some of the older guys, sometimes, that worry me, lol.

[QUOTE=turnleft;157327]I was watching an old video on YouTube from Desoto Speedway. It looked like the early 80’s and was a late model race. A few things I noticed:

  1. The stands where full, and I mean full.

  2. Billboards lined the track, with advertisements.

  3. The car count seemed to be between 35–40 late models!!

  4. Single file re-starts, and on every restart they were not tearing up half the field. Lots of side by side racing through out the field, after the re-start.

My point is, I truly believe the car count and fan count would be much higher, if all the track went back to single file re-starts. Too many cars, In my opinion get wrecked on the re-starts, which in turn causes low car counts. Low car count= low attendance. Vince P.[/QUOTE]

The stands and pits were overflowing in those days. But it was track ownership and promoting that made them that way. The owners of Desoto in those days paid to bring in quality shows and did a lot of advertising and thinking outside the box promoting. That was around 1985 BJ ( before john ).
I don’t think double file re-starts would be on any list of what went wrong with Desoto in later years. That was all John. As for crashing on restarts, we’ve all sat through yellow after yellow on restarts because drivers just don’t seem to able to drive for a lap or 2 after the green comes back out. And i’ve sat thru just as many with single file re-starts as double file. But even the supposedly best stock car drivers in America, NASCAR, often have to throw another yellow right after a the green comes out. Waltrip would say " cautions breed cautions " but i’ve never understood why they have so much trouble staying off of each other on a restart

I think Phil is right. There are just too many darn classes. Certainly the things Frasson mentioned are true also, the costs, and more entertainment options. But that not withstanding, if there were only 3 or 4 classes total, the car counts would go up and the show would be better. The wrecking thing is a big reason why I backed off from racing as much, it just creates more work and more costs, and takes the fun away.

It is not as bad if someone else pays for and fixes the damage…

Double edged sword though, IMO. If the above factors were not in play, I cannot imagine that moroso speedway park is as much fun as St Pete or Auburndale. “Beating” (figuratively and literally) the other guy is what it is all about.

That said, have always had a fondness for Sports Car Racing (going to all of the Rolex events, no doubt) and have a great deal of respect for you and the other road racers.

The only comment i can add to this is, The stands were full in the 80’s because it WAS the 80’s. OSW was a packed house then too.

One other thing. I would do single or double file restarts…single file didn’t bother me because when the leader fired i went to the outside and took spots away from the bottom feeders.

Neither are an issue if you know how to drive in traffic.

No respect

IMO, there is no respect on the re-starts, and it is tearing up to much equipment, which is causing to many drivers to sit out. I believe car count would go up after a month or two of single file re-starts. I also believe you will see more side by side racing and more cars left at the end of the race, simply because less cars will be sitting wrecked in the pits! Vine P.

Any class that can’t get one lap in after 3 attempts, needs to go back to the pits. Let the come back out after all the others run.
They act like children,treat them as such.
I agree on too many classes. Racers know the difference between SS,PS, and bombers, but most in the grandstands DO NOT.
They’re probably scratching their heads wondering why in the hell are they only running 6-8 cars per feature?