This year there are only 42 entries for the Daytona 500… 40 cars will start and only two teams will not qualify…
Go back just 10 years to 2007 when 43 cars started the race… There were 61 entries in 2007 with 18 teams packing up and leaving after Thursday… Some of the drivers who missed the race that year: Mike Bliss, Ward Burton, Paul Menard, Kenny Wallace, Bill Elliott, James Hylton, Jeremy Mayfield, Derrike Cope, Regan Smith, Brian Vickers, Mike Skinner and A. J. Almendinger…
I think It will get worse. The cost is just too high. You can’t hope to make enough money as an open team with no sponsor.
Here is how I see it:
The Jimmy Means & Bobby Johns of the world have never been able to be competitive in Cup, but the payout for the lower spots is still so much higher than other forms of racing that they think “For about the same $$ to race ARCA or XFINITY, I can go Cup Racing”–and “make” more money.
I don’t know if it is necessarily true, but I am guessing that is the mindset.
More recently, I think Tommy Baldwin and possibly BK racing fit into this category. And I think there will be someone next year or the year after to follow the same path.
True, though, there are less of them…
OS, the problem is now if you don’t have a charter, you only get about 30 percent of the purse of what the chartered teams get.
Thank you, sir.
Well then, it would seem that the number of charters should match their target field size.
Or they will probably find out it works that way…
Alternatively, would not the only way to really have full fields (after the “independents” die out) would be if Charter Teams can run an “extra” car or two?
I believe NASCAR knew the fields were going to get smaller, and this is their way of making it look like that is what they wanted.
Oh well, it is what it is (and it ain’t what it was).
Generally, 20 car fields are considered “big” on short tracks.
Annnnd half or better of the field are running in the back half of the field already, and are largely non factors at all for the last 10 races.
But here is a thought–you don’t suppose it is not because they will have less teams to pay at all?!
Regardless, look at the field size of other “big time” racing series, and the closeness (or rather, lack of it) in those series.
The way I currently view it is:
>NASCAR knows they are #1 in motorsport in their target market and
>NASCAR knows that there are some of us (probably me) that have a ways to go, threshold wise, until we stop watching it.
–So, all of the above are a “given”, and they can do what they want, and
>We are an aging, and therefore dwindling chunk of market share
–Therefore, what to do other than become more NASCAR-X like?
My understanding is they took the same purse and gave most of it to the charter teams, to make them stronger. I suppose you are right, they don’t want us dinosaurs anymore. I sent you a pm.
Oh they want us, they just assume that we are a given and not requiring schmoozing.
Am off to NSS…
…
Sadly, todays racing is not for the checkered flag. It is to obtain a sponsor and without one you can’t race.
Yep, but “today” dates back to 1970 or so.
Prior to that the factorys were in, and only a few had the money to do it right then also.
They left, and Reechard brought in STP, and the rest is history.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;173645]
The Jimmy Means & Bobby Johns of the world have never been able to be competitive in Cup, but the payout for the lower spots is still so much higher than other forms of racing that they think “For about the same $$ to race ARCA or XFINITY, I can go Cup Racing”–and “make” more money.
I don’t know if it is necessarily true, but I am guessing that is the mindset.
More recently, I think Tommy Baldwin and possibly BK racing fit into this category. And I think there will be someone next year or the year after to follow the same path.
True, though, there are less of them…[/QUOTE]
Very, very true. The “payout” in the lower divisions is pathetic when you factor in the cost to compete in those series. Driving all around the country in a rig doesn’t cost any less with a truck in there than a Cup car, for example. This is what bred the start-n-parks some years back. But even at the Cup level the actual payout is pretty weak. They cut the point fund in half last year after multiple decreases over the last few years. Last years champ in Cup got something like 2 million bucks. In 2013 is was over 5 million, in 2008 it was over 7 million.
NASCAR is on a totally unsustainable financial path right now. The advertising value to sponsor a car is nowhere near worth what the teams need to get paid to do it.
While that mainly is true
Its not entirely accurate. The Wood Brothers have always been a competitive group and even as recently as a couple seasons back didn’t run the entire schedule. The Charter thing has guaranteed that will no longer be possible. It does concern me that with the demise of all the manufacture’s that once participated in NASCAR like Mercury,Olds,Plymouth and recently Dodge that there is no longer the win on Sunday sell on Monday mindset in the auto industry any longer and long storied guys like Petty and the Wood brothers are going to quietly vanish.Johnny Benson took a family owned car to Daytona and led a hell of a lot of laps in what like 2001 or thereabouts? All of NASCAR’s moves in the last ten years have been pointed towards becoming the Formula One of America and before too many years you will see that 40 car field shrink down even farther.
Re: The manufacturer thing.
Seems like it was Ford (which includes Mercury) and GM (4 divisions) & Chrysler (2) at best back in the day (well, Bobby Allison blew up a few Ramblers, if you want to count them…). Many times one or two of them would be pouting for one reason or another.
Today we have Ford, GM, and Toyoda, and Darge is reportedly wanting to come back. Additionally there have been rumblings about additional overseas participation from time to time.
Re: Formula 1. Sad to say, I agree with that. And like Formula 1, NASCAR is on a slide.
Eventually they will not be a viable marketing operation for either the manufacturers or the beer companies–at current levels.
But overall I think the series is sustainable. It is all the same to me if Jimbo gets 2 mil or 7.
When the manufacturer’s were involved true the many car brands were under the same big umbrellas, but it ensured their were more available seats for guys to fill.And with the car makers footing a lot of the financial burden the fields were never going to shrink to the levels you have recently. Now all of a teams drivers didn’t necessarily get treated the same( and the best example of that is what Mario Andretti said Ford tried to do to him with engines the year he won the 500)and there isn’t the availability of corporate sponsors willing to foot the bill for an entire race season any longer.There are only a few rides that will sport the name of the same main sponsor on their quarter panels for every race in the season.The deal you mentioned O.S. where Petty brought in STP if you remember that wasn’t just racing news at the time that was national news.The first million dollar sponsorship deal ever in NASCAR. Nowadays its chicken feed.And the sponsors wanted more and were banging on NASCAR’s door to get in.Now there trying to tear the door off to get out.
LOL, that is funny, but it is also true. I agree with OS, that NASCAR will survive, but I am convinced it will be on a much smaller scale. There are many reasons as we all have mentioned for their downward spiral, some are affecting all types of sports. But one that I don’t hear mentioned too often is the fact that NASCAR just has too many series. In the old days, you had Cup, Late Model Sportsman, and local short track racing. In the beginning, LMS wasn’t a full on traveling series. The drivers in Cup mainly came up from there, along with some of the USAC guys. Now they have 3 major traveling series, plus I think 2 K&N series, and god knows what else I can’t think of. There isn’t enough money to go around to support all these. It was amazing to me when I walked thru the ARCA garage this last weekend, the difference in the cars and teams. Some were still pulled in a old beat up tag trailer. Some of the cars bodies were not near as nice as the Sportsman cars at NSS. But you know what? The on track product didn’t look much different from a Cup show. At probably 1/100 the cost. Same thing happened in sports car racing. With the manufacturers involved, the costs skyrocketed, chasing off most of the privateers. The manufacturers pulled out, and pro sports car racing in this country almost died. Then the Frances came up with the idea of a low cost tube frame prototype, the DP. Now in sports car racing they are experiencing boom time again with lots of manufacturers involved, and they have chased off most of us privateers again. Look at TRG. When we raced in 2008 they had 7 cars in the 24 hour. This year they had one. It will happen to them again when the manufacturers decide to leave, which they will.
Jacko is right, there are too many divisions in NASCAR, not unlike most short tracks that have 7,8,9 divisions.
I would like to see NASCAR do a few things that would eliminate some divisions and give the “privateer” opportunities to compete.
Since the charters aren’t going away, they should have every cup team with a charter have to run a Xfinity car and make them finance it etc, but no cup drivers can drive in the xfinity series except rookies and only at races where both divisions are running the same track that weekend.
I would like to see the trucks go completely independent from Cup Charter owners. Make it more of a grass roots series where guys can have a couple of trucks and be able to compete. Again, drivers from Xfinity or Cup cannot run in the trucks. I would almost like to see the Trucks and ARCA combine in some way.(I know with sponsorship money paid by Camping World and TV this probably couldn’t happen).
The K&N series should be Super Late Models. This would allow them to get fields of 30 or 40 cars.
Pretty sure none of this will ever happen because like someone posted earlier, Cup is getting close to F1 than grass roots and it will only continue to get more expensive. How it costs 12-15 million dollars to run a cup team is beyond me. Especially when you can run an xfinity car for 3-4 million.
At least scantily clad women are back in victory lane…
“…In sports car racing…With the manufacturers involved, the costs skyrocketed, chasing off most of the privateers. The manufacturers pulled out, and pro sports car racing in this country almost died. Then the Frances came up with the idea of a low cost tube frame prototype, the DP. Now in sports car racing they are experiencing boom time again with lots of manufacturers involved, and they have chased off most of us privateers again…It will happen to them again when the manufacturers decide to leave, which they will.”--Jacko
Absolutely correct. And in other blobs, er, blogs, folks just love the DPis & detest the DPs. Go figure.
Re: Cup–The way I see it, it’s all good. If it “shrinks”, I anticipate that the manufacturers and the private sponsors will stay, but will also shrink what they are willing to pay as Cup implodes.
Eventually (hopefully) they will have to lose and/or downsize their big boring tracks.
But even if not, it will all be self leveling at some point. They will jack around the show until the numbers flatten, and then maybe grow at a moderate pace from there.
Like the .com bubble and the housing bubble, the racing-is-the-latest-trendy-thing has deal has come and gone.