Ok I would like to hear from anyone more knowledgeable than I in this area and have a reasonable conversation about this.Why is it no race track here in Florida(with the possible exception of New Smyrna and East Bay) have got some of their events broadcast on cable or satellite television? The only answer I have ever recieved is it costs too much.How so? Please explain to me so I make sure I’m not missing something here.The way I have always been told is cable networks pay (camera crews,production crews etc,) for programming and in turn sell that programming right to the cable/satellite providers who in turn sell that airtime to advertisers/sponsors.Mav TV is the major player nowadays in this type of programming.But I contest not the only possibly interested party.I have seen with my own two eyes since I relocated to Florida nine years ago broadcasts on networks such as the outdoor channel and ION,stock car races broadcast.The event I saw on ION was an ASA event from SOUTH AFRICA live broadcast at 3am.The Super Cup Stock Car Series which holds events primarily in Pennsylvania and Virginia have had events broadcast on Mav for several seasons now as well as Madera (Ca.) Speedway also airing their weekly programs on Mav for at least the last three years.Are those two so nationally well known and have such deep pockets that they have tons of money to go and pay for these broadcasts? I just don’t see how that could be.What I think I see is an unwillingness to do a little research into it and make some phone calls to pitch the idea to cable networks.THEY NEED PROGRAMMING to survive or they have no network.If a broadcast network can afford to send a crew half way around the world to film some guy eat rodents you’re telling me going a few states away to video a race isn’t more economically feasible to them?New Smyrna, you are in search of a new marketing director so can you give me a response and a little insight? (as well as anyone with direct knowledge in this area.)
I can speak from a TV production standpoint and none of it is as easy as you propose. With MavTV you must pay all the production costs and then Pay for your airtime. From that point you yourself sell commercials and Ad space and I can tell you the line of people waiting to buy Ads for local level racing is all but non-existent.
MavTV is owned by Lucas and Mr. Lucas is a diehard Motorsports fan which is why they are so open to broadcasting local level racing.
But at the end of the day it all comes down to Money.
A place like New Smyrna can’t do anything. Their hands are tied. They are a NASCAR track and NASCAR controls what can be done with any type of video from the facility whether it’s a super late model race or a bomber race, it is all in NASCAR’s hands. We produce the 9 nights from Speedweeks and broadcast it on FansChoice because that is the only outlet NASCAR can allow it to go on since FansChoice is owned by NASCAR. Any other broadcasting (other than on a NASCAR owned product) is controlled by Fox and NBC and is in their Broadcast Rights contract. Essentially Fox and NBC control everything because of how their contract is written. (Even Bomber/Pure Stock Features)
In the end, once again, it all comes down to Money. And unless you are willing to purchase the airtime from a network, you are screwed. Networks themselves do not purchase any products unless they have a vested interest in them.
And lastly, I can speak with a wealth of knowledge on this front, it costs A LOT more to put together even an internet stream of a race than ANYONE who does not see the actual numbers would EVER realize. And I know first hand because that is my job. As a small example, without getting into actual numbers, Speed51 had more than 20 people on site for Bristol, all doing multiple tasks as opposed to one specialized thing (the way Networks do it). Now just figuring Travel, Hotels, and Pay for 20+ people without even factoring in the cost of the equipment, cameras, cables for a venue that size, microphones, Video switchers, encoding equipment, a platform to stream on, etc. And that’s not even all of it but you can see where the overhead starts to add up before even filming a single lap of practice. We do it because every one of us from Bob Dillner on down absolutely Love and are passionate about short-track Racing. Something the networks could care less about.
This ends up being one of those, sounds good from afar ideas that actually has many more layers to it than people think.
Thank you Mr.Keeler
I thought for a minute I wouldn’t get any responses back on this.And to cut to the chase basically I have the cart before the horse.With New Smyrna’s case I kind of figured they were contractually bound by NASCAR as far as broadcast rights.But I still am scratching my head over the two entities I had mentioned in my post.Maybe I have a misconception of how deep their pockets are.Maybe they are somebody’s brother in law.I don’t know.It just (at least on the surface) seems to be something that would be no easier (and/or in this case cheaper) for Madera or Supercup to pull off than any single track or tracks to pull off.But honestly I don’t know all their details so I can only wonder.
Funny mark you talk about it cost money to do it . And all the work it takes to do fanchoice . I have watched people face book live videos from there phone that were just as good . So good that some tracks have signs saying no Facebook live video of the race . When really it might be good advertising for the track .
ok maybe I should be a little more specific
First off I really was talking more about a tape delayed television broadcast than an internet stream or Facebook live feed.I could see the hesitance from track owners on any live events because of their fear it would (and could) affect the front gate.So a question I might pose to Mr.Keeler is all the encoding equipment,switch boards etc necessary for a tape delayed canned video.On fans choice it looks like there aren’t the multitude of cameras used that you state Speed 51 uses at Bristol.It appears only one camera angle is used but I could be wrong.My old hometrack Columbus Motor Speedway had their races broadcast on tape delay for a couple seasons on a low power television station that existed for a couple of years in Columbus.Their broadcasts utilized half the number (or less) personnel that your broadcasts take but were well done.And I’m not even posing all these questions with the idea that this would work everywhere.But in the state of Florida who’s population changes every six months strategically placed broadcasts say come early November could be a huge shot in the arm persuading some people (shivering in the cold) up north to come here to visit a track or advertised event on television.I appreciate the fact that Mr.Keeler is way more well versed in this area than I am BUT as per my original post a couple certain entities HAVE found a way.But hey I don’t know maybe they are rich…or well connected,…or just smarter than track owners in Florida.
shorttrackcar1… While it is certainly possible for someone to sit in the grandstands and do a Facebook Live from their phone, the notion that the quality is “just as good” was about the only thing I found “funny” in this thread…
I’ve watched several Facebook Live videos and the quality flat out sucks.
As for Fanschoice… We used 5 cameras for it this year including one wireless. Cameras alone range from $4,500 on the low end to anywhere between $15,000-$30,000 on the higher end. Now factor in cabling for the camera feeds at $1-2.00/ft or $2-$5,000 for a wireless unit… And again, the cost of travel, housing and day-pay for anyone operating the cameras, TDing, GFX operator for Live Scoring tickers and any other extras that you want to add on… YES… The cost Adds up.
Some places do utilize single camera feeds (ourselves included) but there still is a cost. Camera (again from $4.5k to $30k and up), Encoding equipment, and let’s not forget someone to operate it. And then there is the inevitable cost of repair and maintenance on a camera which after a dozen or so races (asphalt) or even as few as 2 or 3 (dirt… AGAIN, from experience) is needed. But if you are NASCAR then NASCAR calls the shots and the tracks essentially don’t even have a say in it most of the time. If you are an independent track you need to secure a place to stream the race. If you wanted say an unlimited bandwidth account on a secure platform you’re looking at $12-$15,000 per year.
For our MAVTV, tape delayed, broadcasts (of which we did two last year and are in the process of a dozen more in 2018) the simple answer is YES, all that same equipment is needed and in some cases more since you have to add in Video Editing, Shading and other additional expenses after the fact. With the exception of the encoding equipment (which is one of the lowest cost items in the mix), you still need to create a “Line Cut” that is then voiced over after being edited down for time constraints. So again, it all boils down to money. Money to produce and then money to purchase the air-time. And believe it or not, not all Networks are even willing to sell the airtime for something like short track racing.
The benefits of a Live streamed event are the availability for someone anywhere in the world to watch the event Live as it happens plus it is an actual revenue generator for the Tracks. (Unlike FB Live which is essentially someone buying a ticket then giving that to their friends over and over again for free which does NOTHING for the track)
I realize the haters and nay-sayers think that Speed51 just charges people for videos and PPV and takes all that money to the bank (which I can personally GUARANTEE is NO WHERE NEAR or even in the ballpark of how much people think it actually is) but that is not the case. The tracks and/or series that are part of the PPV actually share in the revenue that is generated. Our PPV’s are generally the same as the cost of a grandstand ticket so someone who can’t make it to the track can still watch (for roughly the same price) while at the same time actually supporting the Track/Series that is racing.
I am with you Mark, this stuff aint cheap and the production quality of what speed51 provides is leaps and bounds ahead of a Facebook live type deal.
I recall some of the first broadcasts you guys did and the progress that has been made is phenominal, keep it up, i appreciate it.
What?s funny is That?s your opinion Mark . Speed 51 is streamed thought the internet . You might have more cameras but that?s about it . The quality is nowhere near HD TV. And if NASCAR wanted to put it on tv they wouldn?t use speed 51 . Yea I know it sucks someone can take there phone or iPad in a matter of 5 seconds the race is live with good enough video to watch the race . Just think in a few more years how awesome it will be on a phone .
If you think facebook live is as good a broadcast as what speed51 does, you are nuts.
Multiple cameras, in car, replays, scoring ticker, announcers, pit road reporters, etc i really dont see the comparison.
You are correct, it is my opinion. But if you would rather discuss Facts… the Fact is both NASCAR and MAVTV DO use Speed51 for broadcasts. The determining factor in whether streamed content is “HD” or not is as dependent on YOUR internet speed as it is the speed at the venue.
As i said before, hater and naysayers will have their own opinions, case in point, but it is hard to argue with Facts. And the Fact is the Tracks/Series benefit DIRECTLY from our PPV Streams… What do they get from your FB Live? It is just as much stealing as if you purchased a ticket then handed to your friend through the fence so they could come in for free and so on down the line. How many tracks can afford for people to continue consuming their product for Free?
There are many companies that do things cheaper or less expensive than use and many that spend more. We have our target of expenses that we feel justify the end result and that is what we stay within. But again, comparing a phone or tablet quality to a $4-$15K camera that at the very least is able to actually Zoom in on a car, is laughable.
Bubba… Thank you for he kind words. We strive to make our product better and better every time we stream.
And shorttrackcsr1, I’m not sure where your hatred for Speed51 comes from but I will reiterate that what we do has direct benefits to the Tracks/Series. And believe me, there are other “streaming” companies out there with bigger names than us that actaully charge the tracks $10-$20k per event for “production costs” (we don’t charge them a dime for a PPV) and then they turn around and walk with every dime that was made from PPV. And again, that is Fact, NOT opinion.
And Lastly, Ive taken some heat over the last 10+ years for my opinions on this board but at the end of the day I have always prided myself on the fact that I have never hid my name or used anonymous screen names on here. I put a lot more validity in opinions (whether they differ from mine or not) from people who show their real names. But Karnac was built on nameless people’s “opinions” I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBJcGJIl9wEN-kOowgwMyJw
every race at New Smyrna since mid 2016 can be found here for free. Races are put up mid week so you still have to get to the track and what not , but we do this so our drivers can see how their cars looked and they love it. Plus if a fan misses a race or two during the year they can go back and catch up. Also its great to have a free archive so anyone can go back and rewatch some of the great moments through out the year. Our video makes next to nothing and puts in a ton of work but again this is all free and it may not be speed 51 broadcast quality but it captures the raw feel of being at the track!
Ryan, i was going to comment on the weekly videos that you guys put out, they are awesome. I have watched a few.
Both your videos and the speed51 efforts are a plus for NSS, and i hope they continue!
Mr.Keeler:
As I stated earlier in this thread,I wasn’t really talking about the live streaming videos over the internet such as Facebook since I understand the negative feelings and hesitance track owners would have towards them and the impact they could have on their bottom lines.And to a point I wasn’t even talking about a top notch production.Merely a satisfactory one.Like anything else you can pour countless $ into something in the effort to make it top notch.I was merely talking about being able to put together a fairly appealing product showcasing Florida tracks.Enough so to be a useful tool in encouraging race fans to come to Florida in the cold weather months with a little info thrown in to let them know when and where.As I said in earlier posts a couple entities HAVE found a way.So it not being a field of endeavor I have participated in I valued the tboughts of someone that had.Now as far as the screen name lol.I use a moniker personally because I never raced in Florida and am pretty sure my time racing up north was mostly forgettable.People I meet from Karnac wouldn’t have a clue who I was if I walked up to them and introduced myself.But if they are on this board fairly regularly and I introduce myself as Zerofor on Karnac…they immediately know.So anyway thanks for all the info as you have answered at least some of my questions and I know also you can’t speak for other people and the deal they have set up…Eric Bartrum…(see I told you my name means nothing) lol
Zero… I certainly wasn?t referencing you in my previous post. From what I?ve read from you for a long time on here you are genuinely inquisitive and offer constructive criticism all aimed at bettering and further promoting the sport that we are passionate about. I certainly can?t fault you, or anyone, for that.
I will elaborate once more though and let you know that Networks, including MAV have very high standards for what they will air as far as quality is concerned. And this again is from experience. They will comb through a production literally frame by frame to ensure that the quality meets their audio/Video specs.
I think in the end it still comes down to Money and what some are able and/or willing to spend on what essentially is just Advertising at the end of the day. I know some promoters swear by print advertising, some swear by terrestrial radio, some TV… every one seems to have their preferred method.
And please believe me when I say that whether it is Speed51, Dirt on Dirt, Racinboys, TheCushion, etc… I wish all short tracks in some way shape or form could get more media exposure. I stated on one of our podcasts a few weeks back that I wonder how many die hard JR or Kyle Busch fans even know that they have Late Model programs that those fans can cheer for at the local level to help keep this sport going. But when the biggest sanctioning body doesn?t care to promote it, it makes it tough.
Mark
I was genuinely tee’d off at Nascar several years back.I attended the one and only superlate model race at Daytona of the Battle at the Beach.I had read something about it right after the end of the previous season.It was damn near impossible to find out anything about it leading up to raceday.Not even how or where to get tickets or if they perhaps had scrubbed the entire idea.The principal format was SUPPOSED to be track champions,regional champions etc from Nascar member tracks.Kind of an invitational format type of deal.I have to admit I was a little disappointed when I got there to find out a lot of the starting field had never even been in a latemodel before that race.This they told me in person when I went through the line at the autograph session.Still I have to admit I enjoyed the race and got to meet Kyle Larson,(that night’s winner and a few days later in the front stretch catch fence)Kaz Grala,Austin Wayne Self and all the other starters that night.I asked each one where they were from,wished them luck and have two autographed posters from that night.And won tickets for the Truck and Nationwide race too.(thank you Daytona Speedway)But the crowd was putrid.I don’t see anyway possible that there was a thousand people there that night.Half that were there in the stands were with race teams themselves.So Nascar’s lack of promotion to their base series is kind of appalling and laughable.
Oh I didn?t know I could watch the race on tv mark what channel do you broadcast cast on tell me how it works To get it on my tv ?
Debuts August 1st. Will have to check your Cable/Satelite provider to find which channel MavTV is on your service… (Just the start… More to come for 2019)
We had a local show on the internet since 2011. We started at Punta Gorda and went to Desoto in 2013. We did remote shows from east bay. It was called Turn Five racing. The 6 years we ran we had 5 total sponsors. We just couldn’t keep doing it for nothing, it was too much work!