With the 2008 season underway and speed weeeks in the books, I sit here and wonder the future of sprint cars in the state of Florida. I wonder what it would be like to go to a Florida sprint car show and have 40 to 50 cars in the pits trying to make into the show.Instead we have 3 different asphalt series with the TBARA bringing an average of 25 cars a race, Chechered Flag series is a new series in Florida with its first race bringing 11 cars, and CFWSCA I think around 10 cars per show. What we have here are 2 different series started (CFWSCA 2002 CFS 2008) for one reason or another that both came from the TBARA. I dont think sprint car racing in this state is strong enough to have 3 series and at the rate we are going there will be no series in this state. We seen what happen with the IRL and CART when they split, it ruined open wheel racing and brought it to what it is today. Tony George has to pay teams to make the 33 starting spots for one of the greatest events in motorsports the INDY 500, and over a decade later they reignite. I think for the future of sprint car racing in Florida the clubs, car owners and drivers need to open our eyes and take a long hard look at what we are doing to ourselves. We are as a group killing the sport of sprint car racing in this state and should be scared.
Amen you stated the obvious, What would be your suggestions for a unified sprint series in the state of florida?
Two diverse thoughts: speaking as a fan, I much prefer the winged sprints. Yes, I like the TBARA, but ANY winged group is better because they tend to be able to pass. The TBARA passes a LOT. Although I do enjoy wingless cars too, it is clear that they do more lining up and following when racing on pavement. Doubt it? Have you been to the PRI races at Orlando? Passing has been very infrequent since the first year.
If I was involved with a wingless car, I would really push to unify the two groups. I think the state is big enough for one healthy winged club and one healthy wingless group. Small, unhealthy race sanctions do nothing good for the sport.
I would just like to state for the record that I agree with Eagletai.
To Boneman’s point I don’t see why we can’t just have one uniform set of rules for pavement sprint cars so that cars can run both a winged and wingless series.
To Boneman’s point I don’t see why we can’t just have one uniform set of rules for pavement sprint cars so that cars can run both a winged and wingless series.
you’re failing to grasp the point here.
if we didn’t have conflicting rules sets, it would be tough(er) for a promoter to ‘punish’ a racer for running at another sanction.
you also wouldn’t be able to ‘lock in’ a racing team by getting them to sink money into equipment they can’t use anywhere else. why worry about putting on a good show and treating racers with respect if you can just lock them into a situation where it’s racing your way or no racing at all?
The TBARA has done it all in the past…wings, no wings, dirt, pavement…the car rules are basically the same(or can be). Wings are what people want.
Self-centered egos and being stubborn are causing this…
It’s really going to be up to the track operators (most aren’t promoters…ha!)
and fan support of the chosen events. I hope the car owners are smart about this!
The checkered past sprint car group is basically a one track only effort, in an attempt to hurt the TBARA, so someone can sell fuel and tires to a captive group. If those car owners want to run for low payouts, let them.
It’s been proven in the past…today’s sprint car fans want to see winged cars…let those other guys keep living in the past…they won’t make it.
This is turning into the asphalt version of “As the Florida Sprint Car World Turns.” Don’t worry the dirt sprint car guys can’t get together either. If the dirt guys could get together they would have 30 to 40 cars at a show…I’ll support sprint car racing. But its just a shame that the “egos & money” are getting in the way.
A new series is born.
Have you heard this one lately? Every promoters, racers and race fan did. They pop up everywhere. Like flowers, a couple of new series seems to show up every spring in every corner of North America, only to disappear at season end. It seems that every time there are more than a certain amount of cars in existence of one particular class or a car is use at more than one track, a new series pops up. This article does not apply to the well establish, long term series but more to these particular ?pop up? series, how they come up, what happens with them, if they are good and necessary for our local race tracks.
These series are a big opportunity for the ?would like to be? promoters who do not own a race track and cannot afford one. They go out, pick up a sponsor?s brand name with a nice story on how they will change the face of stock car racing forever, set up a big press conference, gather up 20 some racers from the area, start a series and resell these same local racers at their home track for three time the price. It?s funny how history repeats itself. We?ve all seen it happen over and over again. What a waste of time, effort, money, and sometimes a (some) very good sponsor(s). Somebody said somewhere in time:? he who does not know history is doomed to repeat the same mistakes?.
To start with, a series which respect itself should use Top of the line classes of cars and be filled in majority with Elite drivers & teams. Big bucks teams and talented//professional drivers all the way. There is no need for a ticket price increase for a Super Stock or Mini Stock series races filled with neighbourhood weekly racers. There?s nothing wrong with those but the paying fans are here tonight to see something ?different?. The series should have enough cars on hand for a full field, and it helps to have some teams from your area in that race to stir the competition. Remember fans will pay more tonight, they are expecting and entitled to more. There?s no need to ask the fans to pay more for the same amount or quality of cars as your regular weekly program. Next, it should also have their whole complete staff. This leaves less room for controversy. It should have enough top notch teams//drivers to make a competitive race, in other word, at least a good 35 to 40% of the field should be able to win on any given day. A quick check on last few events results can give you an accurate rate on that subject. These are the minimum acceptable basics for a series whose suppose to amaze your fans tonight.
A series will normally advertise itself with big promises, like, but not limited to: the show of the year, 40+ cars expected, the most competitive field ever, and the best of the best in every aspect. And some of them really are. But, more often than not, fans get out of their night of excitement kind of disappointed. Why?
First, the ticket price is often over inflated. But, you?re all pump up, you buy it anyway, no strike. The promoter has almost no choice because of the high price tag attached to those series. Remember, you?ll see the show of the year tonight!!! So let?s get in anyway, just to figure out, right after you bought your ticket and walked in, that there are only 17 series cars on pit lane! And this is a half mile paved track with a 150 laps feature?Strike one of disappointment. Then goes time trial, fastest qualifier is .268 faster than second place who is .171 faster than third and so on. Now, you just figure out how exciting this race will be. Strike two. So you tell your friend: we?re here anyway, let?s go have some food, bang! The price is upgraded this week, series? in town, remember! Strike three. And it keeps on going disappointment after disappointment. Only two well known racers in the whole field, fastest car starts on the pole, leads every single lap and win. Wow! What a show?.Not good for nobody. The weekly classes save the night, again. Looks familiar!!!
So what?s wrong with that picture? Many times, these so called series are filled with weekly racing budget racers thinking that with the bigger purses, they can afford all the expenses of traveling, fuel, tire, motel, restaurant, entry fees, pit passes, licences, and so on. And beside the price of the race car, the traveling expenses are close to the same being a mini something class or a full blown late model or open wheel machine. Quickly, they find out they are outspending themselves and pretty soon, they quit. But the series keep going, with fewer and fewer cars. Some racers who keep going cannot afford all the right equipments, so they are less competitive, and only the top 3 to 5 teams pick up all top purses, and the field spreads thin more and more. Now, the new series? promoter is at the mercy of racers, sometime has to look the other way, bribes the ?stars? under the table, let some tech issues slips through the system, and the cream turn sour. Expectation of greatness goes down the drain. And the fan, again, picks up the tab of disappointment. That?s often what happens with many of these new series, big expectation, disappointing results.
Are they good for the sport in general, history says beside a selected minority, they don?t do justice to anybody. The only thing they really do is take your local racers (heroes) away, thin your local racers support, put another player in the regional area, leads to expenses increase at local tracks, decrease car count, affect fan count, and so on. One reality of life is racers like to chase dreams, and a new series is the best dream a racer can have. The new series? promoter will promise heaven, big sponsors, humongous purses, point fund you only see in major league, anything to get the racers to join the club. If it looks too good to be true, it?s normally not, but they will fall for it anyway. Glamour and stardom are very attracting. And the worst part of it, is after they have gone there and went flat broke, they just quit racing altogether. So a small advice learned through experience, to local racers across North America: before you commit to these dream series, sit down and count, and count everything. And if this new promoter is promising more than a well known series, be careful. Keep in mind this guy is new in the business, may be he forgot something down the line.
Are they a necessity? A lot of promoters will rely on those to make a financial hit. Let?s bring in so and so series and make a big profit. It would be nice for promoters if it would be always true. Some well establish series will bring in what they claim, but they are more, and sometime real expensive, so some promoter will rely on the new born, cheaper baby. It may work tonight but down the line, if you make your weekly fan mad at you, it will hurt you more than you might have expected. Time would say that beside the long lasting one, no more of these ?pop up? series should see daylight. If you look at different web site of different states or provinces, some places there are more series than race tracks. Something wrong here! So, unless they are structured and operated by solid promoters, well funded by reputable corporation and does not suck all the weekly racers away, promoters as well as racers should think twice before committing to the new series.
How to prevent the new series booming? Talk to your neighbour race tracks about it. A series with no race tracks to race will go away like the sun does every evening. Or, offer the new series? promoter to lease the race track for the night he wants to come, see what he says!!! They should all step on it, according to their speeches; you?re supposed to make the financial hit of the season, right? If they don?t, there you have your answer on the assurance of making big bucks tonight. And, less series in the area means more weekly racers at your local race track.
In conclusion, a good night of weekly racing where fans can meet their friends, greet and support their local heroes is still hard to beat. It?s easier on fans wallet, the risks for promoters are lowers and community commitments are better. So before you step in both feet, as a promoter or racers in one of those series, think again. Weekly racing is what made stock car racing what it is today. There?s nothing wrong with a couple of major events during the season, but weekly racing industry has to be careful not to squeeze the fans as well as racers too much, these ?series? race night are expensive for everybody. And like sugar, a little bit is good but too much can easily turn to dislike.
This will be it for this feature event. Next time, we?ll take a look at how many classes for a weekly show.
See you then!
Andr? Fortin
Qu?bec
PS: And don?t forget to support your local short track!
no, no, no, Andre. you don’t understand. things don’t work like that down here. it’s different up north. :huepfen024:
actually, considering the way fuel prices and the economy are going this year i think there’s going to be a lot of Fla tracks really struggling. most of these crappy “Touring Series” will likely have trouble making half a season.
It may work tonight but down the line, if you make your weekly fan mad at you, it will hurt you more than you might have expected.
oh, that’s an easy one. down here, we don’t worry about putting on a good show for the fans, we just live off the pit gate. :grinser010:
to that end, running more series means dragging more teams into the pits. for a while.
My $.02
As a person who Promoted a travling sprint car series (Florida Mini Sprints) and the son of a car owner who ran with USAC and other groups.
USAC had the answeer to the NON WINGED cars and on DIRT they where great. At Salem and Winchester that was another story. The URC United Racing Club ran topless for years and then SLOWLY phased in the SMALLER wing than what was run at Williams Grove. The winged DIRT cars with 410 engines and the smaller 360’s pulled in the crowds every week. Our Mini SPrints also increased the attendance wherever we ran and we where winged.
The tranwreck that is on the herizon is going to hurt the owners, drivers, track owners and track promoters. The series promotor will do just fine.
Rules for a topless or winged car have been around since the 1960’s. The real rules where the weights of the cars and the engine size. Would like to guess how many USAC or CRA boys just add a wing to run with WOO.
The tech aspect of pavement vs dirt in a sprinter is lite years apart. Can you run a dirt car on pavement, HECK YES, can you run a pavement car on dirt HECK NO just start with ride height and go from there.
I would hate to see an all out war over sprints since there are not that many period. Some are not happy with the COST of their series as far as tires, others do not like the rules for the wing, or the motor or whatever. So LETS START a new SERIES and hope that we can have a JOY JOY feeling, yes for about 3 races then it is back to the same thing but a different gripe.
The real question is WHO CAN YOU GET to PAY FOR YOUR SERIES. If you think about it the BACK GATE should not have to pay for the show.
Had a for instance: TRY THIS ONE entry FEE $150.00, pits $60.00 15th in the maiin got $125.00 see what I am saying guys. YOU put on the show and the fans will pay, you charge a bunch to see 10-15 cars and you will pay.
If you want a succes story copy Emmet Haun (ASCS FOUNDER) the man found out what would keep the guys happy and did it and is STILL doing it.
All I can say is that when I visit Florida (my other home) I hope to see a good field of sprints when they are on the program. Not 12 or 14 with 2 that can win but a field like they have weekly at the Grove.
intelligent, well thought out responses…great food for thought!:ernaehrung004:
As a fan, wings or no wings is a personal like or dislike. I didn’t hear any mention of the added strain on drivelines that the wings create. The need for high output engines is lessened when you can’t get all that power onto the pavement. WQings and gumballs can usually do that and then the more power hp you have, the better. IMHO you can run a swingless sprint for less tha the cost of the winged version, all ether things being equal.
Why the need for two NEW wingless groups is beyond me although it’s probably the personality/ego clash that too often occurs. I’ve been to both of the sprint shows at CCMP and have enjoyed them both. Car counts moved up a bit this week. I only wish the whole fied was made up of the cars of Gary Gimmler and one of the Riddles , the old Grant King style sprinters. Does my heart good to see those cars again. You can still see 'em twisting the wheel without the “stone shields” that are such a necessity on pavement cars today???
Shiloh