Motor Wars 2008

FLORIDA STOCK CAR RACING KARNAC's FLORIDA STOCK CAR RACING
21

How can you tear someone down to see if there legal if there isn’t a motor package/detailed list of parts that there suppose to have??

that’s easy, the same way he does the Enduro races. make shit up as you go.

back in August, Nerone held an Enduro at OSW. first it was supposed to pay $5000 ( [SIZE=“1”]based on 50 cars[/SIZE] ). then it was going to pay $2000. come race day, they tell us in the drivers meeting that it’s going to pay $700 ( even though there were more than 20 cars entered ). then they inform us that “if you finish in the top 3 you’d better have your tool box because we’re going to tear you down”. when questioned on “what rules are you going to be tearing us down to” we were answered that

“the rules are available on the internet”. <<< [SIZE=“5”]this is a bald faced lie.[/SIZE]

FASCAR has no “Enduro” class and any rules published for an Enduro vary depending on which FASCAR promoter is putting on the race. these rules are ONLY available on paper copies in the pits or the promoters office.

there is NO set of “Enduro” rules kept online at:
FASCAR
OSW
NSS
Lake City
Crash-A-Rama <<< this one is particularly embarrassing as it’s Nerone’s own web site and they run an Enduro at every Crash-A-Rama. could be useful to let the racers know what they need to have, ya think?

so, here’s the way that night went down.

  1. at the pit gate you paid $25 ( $20 if you had a FASCAR license ) to get the driver in the pits. that much again for every crew man you brought with you.
  2. you paid $50 at the pit window to enter your car in the race
  3. you are informed that your purse has been cut to $700
  4. you are informed that you will need to have your toolbox if you finish in the top three as you’re going to tear “all the way down”
  5. you are told that you should have looked at the ( non-existent ) Enduro rules on the track web site because the race Promoter ( Nerone ) and the tech man ( James ) have no interest in showing them to you
  6. you are told that there will be no pre-race tech except for rudimentary safety issues, rules compliance is your problem

so if you finish 3rd, best case, you’re faced with a total engine tear down for a net purse ( $100? - $20 pit entry, no crew men - $50 car entry ) of $30. to a rulebook which the tech man will not provide to you.

they wound up letting 1st and 2nd take home money even though they ran the race on 8" rims. why? well, mostly because Don was off running a show at Lakeland that night and wasn’t there to f things up more than they were already. the real reason though, was that those guys were from the Gulf coast and had called ahead to ask if they could bring their Enduro cars. they were told to come on ahead. just to be safe, they brought 7" rims with them … but didn’t put them on because no official at the track could be bothered to tell them that OSW didn’t allow wheels wider than 7" in an Enduro.

needless to say, I’m not building for or hauling a car to or putting up an entry fee to a Don Nerone show ever again.

and if this post gets deleted or edited it won’t be me doing it. Don can be as “disappointed in me” as he wants. he should try being “disappointed with himself” for a change. although that could interfere with his making up the rules and purses on the fly ( which is quite beneficial [SIZE=“1”]… for him[/SIZE] ) .

i can’t really blame my bad experience that night on him though. hell, it’s not like he hasn’t screwed Ron enough times, you’d think i would have learned from observation.

me be re-Todd-ed.

22

Real Racin? USA Media

?What?s going on here in the spec motor world, between Alabama and Pensacola and down here in South Florida is it?s a motor war, and it?s all about money,? says Jeff Choquette. Last year?s winner of the Florida Governors Cup and World Series of Asphalt Stock Car Racing 2008 champ added, ?It?s all because who is going to sell more motors.?

Choquette was responding to comments made last week by Wayne Anderson on Real Racin USA Live!, the Tuesday night offering from Real Racin? USA. Anderson indicated the Florida spec motor was at the root of problems with Florida super late model racing. Choquette took exception to some of the comments made by Anderson and wanted to clarify for race fans the issues Anderson spoke of.

Choquette laid down a challenge, ?If anybody at any point in time wants to bring me a spec motor fresh out of Steve?s shop, I will be more than happy to give them my spec motor out of my car. That?s how equal I know they are and that?s how much trust I have in Steve at Progressive.?

FOR THE REST OF THE STORY AND LINK TO THE ONE HOUR SEGMENT WITH STEVE MCINNIS (PROGRESSIVE) DEWAINE MCGUNEGILL (MCGUNEGILL) JEFF CHOQUETTE USE THIS LINK!

23

Brass one’s

This is to Jeff Choquette. For someone that has only been racing on the asphalt for a few years you sure think you know a whole bunch about motors and what it takes to win. Hold on, yes, your a good driver. Don’t get me wrong on that. But, your comments on the show last night at the end was very dangerous territory! you said and I quote. (The person who made the comments about these motors from last weeks show doesn’t know what he’s talking about). End quote.
Your talking about a man that has raced in just about every series there is across this country. Enough wins to choke on. Won just about every big race there is across the USA and you have the Brass one’s to say he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Get a grip kid. You have a long way to go to reach his stature and knowledge about a racecar. My opinion is put a CHIP in the motor and see what happens. Compromise. Steve from progressive said he would put a chip in the motor. A 7600 chip. No way! Put a 7300 and see what happens. A 50lb weioght break, no Jeff, you get a whole lot more than a 50lb weight break. WOW. It’s only just begun. Isn’t the whole purpose of having a SPEC motor that is 16thousand run all year long. yes it is. but your running it with no chip and so your defeating the entire purpose of having it last all year long unrestricted.
I say lets have a gear rule with a 7300 chip in any motor. run a 390 carb and lets go racing. Just a thought!

24

I haven’t listened to the audio yet, but I will when I download it tonight.

Reading Choquette’s quote, I think he may have been missing the point a bit. I don’t think anyone is debating that his spec motor is any different than anyone else’s Progressive spec motor, I think the main point of contention is that the spec motors are running un-chipped against non-spec motors and that’s not right.

25

SLM84 - I think you are overreacting to Jeff’s comments, he said basically that Wayne didn’t have one of the Fl Spec motors and didn’t think he had the hands on info to talk about it. I dont know if that is true, but that was the jist of his comments. He wasn’t saying wayne doesn’t know alot about motors, or great experience, but the reality is everyone will have their opinions about each of the motors and until someone lines each of them up and puts them on the same dyno under the same conditions - it is all BS.

Regarding the rev limiter - Steve said he would be open to it, but that his engine more closely matched the Hamner (bore and stroke) and would want the limit to be like that of the Hamner motor - 7600 not 7300.

The reality is that (go figure) there is alot of speculation about the performance characteristics of each motor , and that until we get the promotors together to agree on terms and test performance - we are all gonna suffer.

I didn’t agree with Steve about the parts list. He said he would and has published it to CRA, etc but that he didnt want everybody to be able to build their own. For this to work, things have to be transparent - otherwise speculation and accusations occur with no way to prove anything. I think the seals and crate motor concept is a great theory, but really you aint gonna keep someone out of an engine…Spec motors are a better alternative.

I can now see the progression of things that led to the FL Spec motor and the theory makes sense. Great idea and seems like a great execution. The next logical step is to get the motor guys and promotors together and make some common steps.

Overall, real informative show - great work. I just hope we can get guys on the same page. In the meantime asphalt promotors - we will be at the dirt track - let us know when you get your act together.

26

I LOVE that last line Bubba!!!

27

Said of course tongue in cheek, but, the truth is during speedweeks, I spent twice the money each night to go see the dirt show and I did it twice as much as i went to NSS. Going into it, I would NEVER have thought I would do that, but the action, competition and quality of fields add up to entertainment.

28

Rules for Spec motors???

Bubba, I’m sure that Wayne Anderson has done his homework on all these motors and he does know what he’s talking about. It’s just like going out buying dinner at a restaurant. You might want to know what’s in the special before you eat/buy it. BUT, If the waiter doesn’t know what’s in it would you buy it/eat it???
I agree, they should all get together and hash this thing out. In the mean time I’m sitting at home or going to the dirt races. That’s right. You can run those cars anywhere in the USA.At least some stock car sanction has there act together.
Like I said before, put a 7200/7300 chip in the motor. have a gear rule, have an (ignition rule) << just an option,and a hoosier tire and let’s go racing!!! There are just way too many options out there and it’s WAY out of hand. Good luck!! I’m not paying 20-30 bucks to see this crap.
P.S. How does Jeff Choquette know soooo much about asphalt motors when he’s only been in it a very short amount of time.one more thing> just food for thought. How come just over a year ago you never heard of Patrick Conrad or Sam watts battling for the lead at any of these tracks. A year ago they coulnd’t keep up with the ambulance, now there up front againts these Ford motors and beating them with these UNRESTRICTED/NO CHIP progressive and Crooms/Cope motors. Steve said in the interview. I just want my motors to be able to keep up and keep the cost down. All you have done is messed things up and the rules are going in his favor. he sure is making some money on this deal. SAD SAD SAD. Business must be good if your buying ten at a time of everything that goes in these motors. Sure glad somebody is making money these days with the economy the way it is.

29

Back to the subject matter,I agree with Bubba’s post from yesterday.I will be at the dirt tracks and drag strips until the asphalt gang comes up with a solution to the problems they have created.

30

OK when I first posted that picture this morning I was ticked off at the way this thread is turning out. Everybody is starting to argue and take everything out of context. In my opinion everyone was starting to act like “Idiots” starting with the who is this person to talk about this person and so on. As hard as it is everyone needs to take a step back and have an un-biased opinion of what is going on. Anderson fans can take what Choquette said as bad mouthing Anderson, and Choquette fans can take what Anderson was saying as bad mouthing Choquette, but in all reality that’s not what it was at all, so why start arguing about he said this about my driver and what not. The real problem here is the Spec Motor situation in Florida. NOT HE SAID SHE SAID B.S.

Now as far as I go anybody on here can go look at my profile and get the link to my Myspace page, it is open to the public.(www.myspace.com/bigrickrollin) Read the “about me” section there. I am me, Rick is my first name I don’t hide behind a fake name and I don’t pull punches. In my own view of myself I am the worlds biggest A-Hole cause I’ll tell ya exactly what I think and how I feel. I have several friends with retarded kids weather it be from downs or just born that way and they all have the same sense of humor I have and would have thought it was funny. Because it was meant that way. Does that mean I’m gonna walk up to a retarded person on the street and call them a retard NO, that means that if I saw that happen I would be the first person there punching said person in the mouth. If you need any more of an explanation about who I am then PM me cause that is not what this thread is about.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. :aetsch013:

31

Ok look at the facts!!! It is all about money and that is it. No other way to look at it. 16 grand for a motor? To win what? You got to be kidding me. Hell the ASA crate is only around 5 to 7 grand. I know I beat the drum on Chris Mize and I know he is going through some crap up north which I think is bull. BUT his package was good. It lead to a 25 to 30 car avg. per week up north. RJ correct me if I am wrong but didn’t cra kind of go to this package somewhat to? All motors ran together with different carb rules and weight rules. Also they ran a hard, grooved goodyear tire to restrict traction for the big motor so a crate had a chance. This rule would let all the latemodels run pretty much. GAS, Sunbelt, ASA. It was very affordable to the racer. You could run a 5grand crate and still run with the builts. Engine builders, no offense to them, don’t pay the tracks bills. Drivers and fans do. If you don’t have a good car count you have no fans. Engine builder will go buy food and eat steak tonight while the track owner is eating hot dogs and mac and cheese from save a lot if this goes on like it is. I really think someone is getting pockets lined in this. This will destroy late model racing in the south. To bad SGMP is right on the band wagon with em. And as far as Anderson? In my opinion he is one of the top late model guys in the country. Barr none. When this man talks, it would be very wise to listen. He has been through it all and seen it all.

32

I believe you where talking about Mansfield in Ohio, with the crates running with the built motors. Flew there many times to watch son race and like you said always between 26 and 30 late models on hard tires and running for $800 to win. I love racing, seems like I have to go north to see full fields of cars and some good racing. Lots of cars, no pre-entry fee, inverted line-ups. Oh by the way son finished second in points in 2006 and the car owner bought 8 tires for the season, that was for either 14 or 15 shows.

33

Really, can you tell us more about the rule package? So it wasn’t bull that was said about rules up there. Fill us in please.

34

SLMfantracker84 you need to get your facts straight before you post. Sam Watts won is first superlate race a couple of years ago in his second start in one with a steel head motor at OSW and then went back to running limiteds. Then they built a super for last year and when the motor needed to be bought the got a spec and 16k and winning every race what would you do? In a side note I agree that the spec motor is out of control.

35

Called and ask son about rules at Mansfield. Couldn’t remember numbers, but a real hard 10inch Goodyear tire, and mostly even field with weight rules. True crate motors could run 2700# and a four barrel carb, Pennsylvania spec. motor 2800# and a four barrel carb, built motors steel head 2900# and 2 barrel, built motor aluminum head 2950# and a 2 barrel. Template body, 105 min. wheel base, no traction control, those hard tires and pretty much run what you brung. I don’t want anyone to get mad or upset, but this package made for a lot of great racing, and out of those 26 or 30 cars that showed up every week, in my opinion about 18 or 20 of them ever week was capable of winning the feature. Oh ya after qualifing the fast guy pulled a invert pill from a hat, 6, 8. 10,12 cars, sure is fun watching the fast guys starting 10th or 12th. Son did it a lot in 2006, and they where 30 lap features. Chris dropped weekly shows in 2007, he said Mansfield speedway was just to big to operate every week, now just does 6 or 8 special races a year, ASA, Hooters, Nascar trucks and a few other major series. Sure wish some Fla. promotors would call Chris and ask him all the details…Rick

36

Guess this area knows better. I see each track is flooded with cars and has to run consi.

37

I guess those Yankees really are better than us??? nahhhhhh

I heard one Yankee was running to all the auto parts stores looking for
Pollen-X. Seems someone told him that would make the pollen just fall off his car just like rain-x repells water!!! Funny SOB if ya ask me !!!

38

See what I mean, you try to make a point on how to help with the racing and car counts here in Fla. and you have the guy that thinks he knows everything post that because it worked up north it is wrong. Sorry you think that way, was just trying to make a point to help car counts here in Fla. Rick

39

Dont let them get to you. Ive tried to make rule suggestions about the ministock division to make it more affordable and got the same thing. If they want to race 10,000 four cylinder engines let them. Guess they know why only 8 cars showed up to the first FMSC race.

40

I wasn’t disagee with you Rick. I mean this area is losing fast on late models. Everyone here thinks they know. (promoter wise) But there is now car count. SGMP had 14 this weekend and thought they had a good count. Basic, simple and less cost. Drivers can race for 800 to win when they don’t have to spend a ton at the track.