Florida Mini Stock Challenge

FLORIDA STOCK CAR RACING KARNAC's FLORIDA STOCK CAR RACING
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For those of you who have not heard, the remainder of the season races for the FMSC have been cancelled. This comes on the heels of another poor turnout this past weekend at Desoto. Whatever the reasons for the cars not showing is moot at this point. I understand the economy is tough, and that is why we as a series cannot afford to persue this any further this year. Hopefully things will turn around, and with a little regrouping things can improve next year. This series has a special place with us as we were there when it started. Great races and racers. A special thanks to all of the drivers who DID support the series and we wish you all good luck wherever you race.

                                     Scott and Becky Jackman
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I tried to warn you that the cost of this division was out of hand. No one would listen. Make the cars affordable again and you will see more cars. $20,000 ministocks do not make for full fields of cars. You can call me what you want but places where rules are not so extravagant still have good car counts even with the shoddy economy. Tracks with high dollar minis have seen counts drop drastically.

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Its a shame. That series was so cool when it started 6 or 7 years ago. I ran a few FMSC races and really liked it. Hopefully some answer can be found to get it back on its feet.

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Blaming the economy is just taking the easy way out. The economy is just as bad for the dirt Late Model teams, yet 53 of them made it to Ocala. They haven’t had a field yet under 40 cars.

Rules that got out of hand, jacking these drivers for tire and fuel purchases (both from the series promoter?), slab fees, practice days, hotel stays, meals for the crew, days off from work… try looking at some of THESE reasons why it failed. Unless you can afford all of these expenses (to race for what, a grand to win?), there’s no sense in leaving the driveway.

Level up the expenses that it SHOULD take to race a Mini-Stock (not Mini-Late Models), and maybe you’d have gotten the support. Once again (and again, and again), the King of Knowing It All about short-track promotion managed to screw up something that was good at one time, and still had lots of potential.

When I heard the line about “we don’t need 40 cars, only the best 20”, I knew the Sunbelt Series would be in trouble soon. I was right.

Extreme Modifieds… gone
FMSC… gone
Southern Sportsman… life support at best
Sunbelt… down to 4 tracks, and little support
Common denominator… I don’t even need to go there, do I?

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That is why you should stay in North Carolina Oval44!! Nothing but bad mouthing from people like you isn’t good for our sport PERIOD! There are numerous reasons car counts are down for all classes, kids in college slow economy, slow work, for those of us who don’t have many sponsors or a BIG sponsor. In order to be competitive it takes money and if it isn’t coming in and sure as well better be going out to support my family and pay my bills before I GO and race, no matter how much I LOVE to RACE!!!

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Mark41, you are obviously have no solutions to the problem so just shut your pie hole. You find it easier to throw stones at me. 6 months ago I predicted that this would happen, and look at where things are now.

It does not take a NASA engineer to see that if you lower the costs to race, more people could still afford to do it. The rules have chased off everyone that could not afford to build tube chassis, mini latemodels. Who can afford to start racing ministocks tomorrow when the rules are such that it takes a 20,000-25000 car to be competitive. And anyone that thinks Im lying about engine costs, call Richard Johnson. A brand new 2300 complete from carb to oil pan built to the rules for florida is 9,200 off the dyno. Add a tri-y header for 300 and a 400 flywheel you are at 10,000 for a dam ministock motor.

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I didn’t see any bad mouthing, just an opinion that I believe to be pretty damn close to the realities. If more people saw something wrong with $20K Mini Stocks, maybe there would still be a series to compete in. It shouldn’t take a whole gob of money to run a Mini, but it takes nearly the same cash to run as a Super Late, racing for 1/5 of the money.

Pit passes cost the same, tires are comparable, fuel cost is the same. Meals and hotels aren’t discounted because you run in a lower class. Do you get a price break on a slab fee with a Mini?

If these races were single day events, run the tires you already own, and no entry fee for the race (I’m not talking about free pit passes), I think they would bring some cars out. Having to spend $300-400 (on the conservative side, I’m guessing) for a weekend of Mini-Stock racing is crazy. That’s after spending $15-20K on the car.

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A super late model is WELL over $20,000 for the engine. But here is what some people are starting to see about dirt.
Complete up to date complete crate motor car $12-15,000. You can race for $800-10,000 all over the southern United States.

[QUOTE=Frasson118;10423]
Pit passes cost the same, tires are comparable, fuel cost is the same.[/QUOTE] Dirt Late Model Tires run from $125-150 and yo can run the soft sets for 2-3 races and the harder tires can run over 300 laps of racing.

[QUOTE=Frasson118;10423]
If these races were single day events,… .[/QUOTE]
This is a BIG item. Practice days help big money teams PERIOD. You give them a full day of testing and practice on several sets of tires so when the race rolls around they are tweaked and anyone who could not make it is a FULL day behind right away. It is bad enough on dirt but on asphalt the track changes little if any form one day to the next.
Show up and race the same day is one of the reasons why the United Dirt Late Model Challenge Series is doing so well.

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to oval 44

OVAL 44 I build mod mini’s and I can build a tube chassis cheaper than a stock one. I’m Fairly sure that the othe chassis builders will build you a tube chassis cheaper than a stock one. And by the way were do you get off thinking a tube chassis is faster than a stock one? i’m running the same speed I was when I had a stock chassis but the parts are much easier and cheaper to find, when were aloud to run a tube chassis and aluminum bodies. Furthermore, I Have a johnson motor and have never paid more than $4500 for one and tri-y headers suck.
Please come to florida and race when I smoke you you can Buy my johnson motor for $5000.00 and go home.

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Lets See
We All Have Stock Rear Ends
Stock Spindles
Stock Brakes
Stock Tranmissions
Stock Struts
Stock Brakes
Stock Intakes Stock Cranks
A Fuel Cell A Seat
Gauges
Steering Wheel
Aluminum Body $500 With Nose And Roof
Stock Roof From Junk Yard $300 With Fork Hole In It
Tubing To Build Tube Chassis $900.00 Complete
We All Ahve Stock Cross Member
Heads All Have Same Parts You Choose Cam
Blocks Are The Same
Any Piston Any Rod
Mostly Cost $300.00 A Set
Same Pulley’s On Cars
Radiator Aluminum $175.00
Stock $75.00 Junk Yard
So Weres This $25,000 Mini Stock???

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Practice days also contribute to a lousy show for the fans. All the teams spend all of their time dialing into “the groove” and can’t handle anything BUT the groove. Once qualifying is over, so is the race. From there, it’s all follow-the-leader. When are these people going to understand that this isn’t Nascar, it’s entry level local short track racing. As for the racers, a lot of them know how to drive fast, but that’s an entirely different thing than RACING. A 1 hour session of practice, maximum, should be in place, as well as 2 qualifying RACES to set the starting line-up. Luck of the draw starting positions, 10 lap heats, and handicapping by points for the main event.

You need practice? Get your ass out there at the tail end of a heat race!

With the dirt LM’s, I’ve seen many different sanctions, like WoO, Lucas Oil, Southern All-Stars, UDLMCS, UMP and others. Practice usually consists of a single session of 3-5 laps, then they get set to qualify. Many times that means HEAT races instead of bore-me-to-death time trials. Anyone who wins these shows, faced at least 3 different track conditions to get there… practice, heat and feature… and although they may have used different tires in each, it’s doubtful that more than 1 (many times zero) were new tires. They don’t burn up 8-12 tires for a $2,500 to win purse.

If they want to use “the economy” excuse for why this (and the rest of the) series failed, take a good look at how much you are demanding and/or allowing teams to spend to race with you. I suspect that the tracks make much more off of 12 teams for 2 days than they do having 24 teams for 1 day… which is exactly why it WON’T change until every one of these series is dead.

And it’s also why they can’t get asses in the seats.

I’ve had it with 12 car races, with the fastest car on the pole. There are more passes for position in the heat races at a single Lucas Oil Series race then there are in an entire Sunbelt season.

God forbid the FMSC officials take a look in the mirror when they try to figure out WHY it didn’t work. No offense to any ONE person in particular, but as a group, there were MANY bad decisions made on how to run a series for budget racers. These racers are blue-collar working stiffs… not a bunch of spoiled kids from rich Daddy’s. You can get all of THAT you want in the SLM and ASA classes all over the country.

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traveling series

The problem with the lower budget traveling series is the cost to travel. Thats why we are going to race close to home for the rest of this year. Its also very hard to get sponsors when you race from one end of the state to the other. The local mom and pop sponsor doesnt see any return when you race 300 miles from home

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Look at the management. That is the only common thread throughout these dead and dying series. Im just glad they dont have access to a dirt track or they would kill the UDLMS as well.

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Baffles me!

The FMSC and SSS have never had 2 day shows with the exception of USA. The tracks may hold practice but it is not mandated by the series. The late models do but, they request it and can do it. We got away from forced fuel purchases to help ease the pain.And… IF the Florida tracks COULD or WOULD ever get on the same playing field things would be a lot easier on everybody. Keep on spouting about management when you sit behind a false name and chastize everyone who works their asses off for these series.If you have a gripe with one person say it out loud. Try slipping on an OFFICIAL shirt and work inside the fence with a great bunch of racers and officials who give thier heart and soul to make this work. Everybody seems to know better or have a better way but won’t step out and be accounted for the things they say. Find an old rule book and look at the differences, there isn’t alot.So… by all means beat this dead horse for awhile until the next Graveyard awakening post hits this board.
Scott

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[QUOTE=RacingFascar;10457]The FMSC and SSS have never had 2 day shows with the exception of USA. The tracks may hold practice but it is not mandated by the series. The late models do but, they request it and can do it. We got away from forced fuel purchases to help ease the pain.And… IF the Florida tracks COULD or WOULD ever get on the same playing field things would be a lot easier on everybody. Keep on spouting about management when you sit behind a false name and chastize everyone who works their asses off for these series.If you have a gripe with one person say it out loud. Try slipping on an OFFICIAL shirt and work inside the fence with a great bunch of racers and officials who give thier heart and soul to make this work. Everybody seems to know better or have a better way but won’t step out and be accounted for the things they say. Find an old rule book and look at the differences, there isn’t alot.So… by all means beat this dead horse for awhile until the next Graveyard awakening post hits this board.
Scott[/QUOTE]

Scott… no one was attacking you personally so dont take it that way… But rather your the head of the management group that ran this… so who is in control of the series YOU square your shoulders stand straight up and take it. Let me ask you this…
Did you see this coming?
Did you ask the racers what they can do to make it out to the track?
Did you call racers that havent races in weeks on your roster to see what it would take for them to race?
Oh wait i’m thinking like a promoter again.
Well thats 2 out of 4 series FASCRAP has killed… guys sit back …it will evolve again! Now be smart and dont let these FASCRAP people run a series again. Anyone who learned under that Hart.Nerone.Roberts NSS.OSW style of promoting your killing racing by letting the little rich kids and dads run the common people out of the racing scene. Seems as if you’ve takin a page out of the current NASCRAP handbook and catering to the rich and elite and forgetting who got you where your at today. With the 2 series down it seems as if the common racer has spoken. I WILL SAY THIS YOUVE STARTED THE KILLING OF FLORIDA RACING!!!

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Hold on here a minute, I know for a fact that Sott HAS called a bunch of racers in the FMSC to see what can be done about getting the car count up. So it is not like he wanted this to fail, he put in his effort as he did from the beginning of the series. I look at this as a combination of many things as I stated earlier, not one person. And Brian Dorer hit the nail on the head, it is much easier to build a tube car than a stock one. His analysis his about right on, the only differences would be who charges more for what you get.
And I just can’t stand this ovalcrapracer44 who is constantly spewing crap about our racing series and how “he predicted” this or that, if you are still “predicting” stuff, how about those lottery numbers? If people would open there eyes to some real stuff like quit spending money over seas and stuff and invest back in th UNITED STATES this country might get out of the toilet! WE ARE our on worst enemy!!!

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Scott does a fantastic job with his Mini Stocks, Sportsman, and Late Models. He nor more wanted this to fail than Rick wanted the modifieds to fail. But it is hard enough to race local track (close to home) right now much less drive to another track far away. Times are hard, very hard. People are losing their jobs, their homes and racing is a hobby and hobbies go when times are hard. It is not who runs the series or whatever, it is called everyday life right now.

When the series was big and it was, times were alot easier for everyone. Money was not so tight as it is right now. You can sit and blame whoever you want, but no one is to blame but the economy. It saddens me to see everyone saying it is this person and that person’s fault when it is no one fault but the time we live in now.

Do me a favor and talk to the racers themselves and you will see what I am talking about. Some can’t race at all right now, others must chose when they can race and some, not many, don’t have to worry because they have the money no matter what.

The Mini Stocks and Modifieds will be missed and you better watch it because tracks may be next. A hobby is just that, a hobby. You can walk away from it when you can’t afford it. Track owners need cars and fans to stay open and that is hard. So take a break and just see things for what they really are - the government stinks right now and times are ---- hard for all of us.

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These unfortunate times are the reason we are forming an alliance to help out the dirt racers as much as we can. I wander around the pits, taking pictures, shaking hands and socializing with these guys. Many of them are barely getting by, some are working additional hours at their day jobs just to support their love of racing.

The cost of running these cars has skyrocketed and the payouts, unfortunately, have not kept pace, due to many drivers cutting back on the frequency of their racing, or stopping all together. I really feel for these people who in my opinion are struggling desperately to sustain one of the most basic of our God-given rights…The Pursuit of Happiness.

We’re DETERMINED to raise as much money as we can and give back to the drivers something …anything… The Florida Dirt Bowl will be held in mid October, probably around the 18th…maybe consolidated in with the Thanksgiving event, and will be held at the North Florida Speedway. It’s open to ALL drivers, regardless of where you live.

Every cent of what we raise will be given back to the drivers, to supplement their pay-outs. Car washes, auctions, beermugs, websites…whatever it takes…whatever we can do… I spent 20 years in the military upholding the standards of a free society. This effort reminds me a lot of those days. We had a mission, we’re not afraid to work hard to accomplish that mission and we were prepared to fight.

Help us! $5 or $10 ain’t gonna break anyone, but with all of us pooling together, it could make a difference! Hell, that’s only a gallon of gas. And while it may not me enough to keep every driver running for another year…at least it will be a way of saying “thanks” to quite a few…

If we run low on gas…we’ll get out and push.

.

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I have more than that in parts in a new motor. Technology is changing all the time and speed keeps getting faster.

Ministock counts started falling when it got to where 4500 couldnt build the whole car. Part of this is due to hard to find parts. Transmissions are hard to find. The best intakes are hard to find. Find a few ovalport heads and someone will probably give you a kidney for it.

I really think getting back to hydraulic lift heads would help reign in the costs because high dollar bottom ends would not be necessary. Also call me crazy but take the cars off the racing tires and you would see the fields get tighter.

I say a lot of the things I do because I care about this division. I race it by choice. I quit racing legends cars and it was either latemodels or minis and I prefer minis. They are more fun to race.

As things change. front wheel drive fuel injected cars will become the norm. This scares me because costs will go up even more. Think a tech man can be lost looking at a carburetor? Wait until they have to tech electronics. Repair and diagnosis will also become very costly and difficult. Not many people have the tools or knowledge to diagnose OBDII cars. They can not be shade treed like OBD I cars.

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[QUOTE=Frasson118;10419]

Extreme Modifieds… gone
FMSC… gone
Southern Sportsman… life support at best
Sunbelt… down to 4 tracks, and little support
Common denominator… I don’t even need to go there, do I?[/QUOTE]

you forgot Goodyear Late Models and Pro Trucks which would put us at “2 down, 4 to go”. http://www.fascartours.com/

i was wondering though, should we be including Gulf Coast Mods in this count?