It would appear by the reponses to this idea that it would probably work , and more importantly that it would give the fans a better show . Most of the drivers seem to be behind anything that will put fans in the stands . What we’re doing now certainly isn’t working . All of the faster cars coming through the pack in every race , what fan is going to say they like the old way better . One more thing though , obviously blocking would be an issue , but the tracks that use complete inverts simply blag flag obvious blocking ( as they should anyway ) and the show rolls along .
Now which race track is going to be the first in Florida to adopt this idea and bring the fans back ?
Well CCMP is what I call my home track now that I have moved from Ohio to Fla. I hope all track owners and promotors read this and can see that this is how it was and still should be. Invert the field how ever you want, I like a lucky fan be called after qualifing to come down , spin a wheel or throw a pair of dice and see what the invert will be for that night. The invert would be anywhere from 2 to 12. I myself and then later my son have won feature latemodel races on 3/8 mile track, 30 lap feature and anywhere from 14 to 20 cars, and started last. Lets all man up and don’t start that crying about getting your car torn up, first of all it shouldn’t happen and most cases it doesn’t. The fans get to see a great show, a lot more guys have a chance of winning, so more cars will show up to race. To me this is a win situation for all (promotor, racer, and fan)
All of the faster cars coming through the pack in every race , what fan is going to say they like the old way better.
that’s just the thing. “fast cars up front” is not the “old way”. full field inverts is the “old way”.
One more thing though , obviously blocking would be an issue ,
for about a month, two if the fast cars need to relearn how to deal with cars that won’t give way.
but the tracks that use complete inverts simply blag flag obvious blocking ( as they should anyway ) and the show rolls along .
that’s a big problem today, yes. not so much that the flag man isn’t waving the black often enough, but that race directors don’t understand what’s going on when the faster car moves the slower one.
Ever seen Eglish-style short track racing?
ever see British Touring Car? it’s about impossible to find now that SpeedTV has gone fag for Unique Whips, Pinks and Wrecked. you would never have imagined that there would be so much contact in a road course race if all you’ve ever seen was SCCA, F1 or CART.
Hialeah Speedway used to take the last four weeks points added together, and invert on highest total last, lowest total first, with the last week winner dead last. Yes, you sometimes had the same guy starting on poll every single week for months, and he never led the first lap, but in the most part, the fast guys made their way to the front, and the slow guys made there way to the back. On big events, they took the top 10 qualifiers, and they all drew for position. Sometimes you got the 1st place pull pole, but sometimes you got 10th pull pole. Nothing is perfect, but what you need is a plan and stick with it.
starting position
lets just take one track back in day — golden gate or sunshine
seen it week after week first night draw pills next night start how you finished first week first car last next car next to last and so on and i have seen winner start 32 place donnie tanner and win the race – in late models same way super six and bombers same way
so start fast car on pole and lets watch follow the leader till they dump the leader
Fans Can’t See Pill Draw
Fan’s can’t see pill draw… was there really a 12 in that bag?
Are there more "0"s’ and “2”'s than higher numbers?
Put the draw on a SPIN BOARD right under the flag stand and let someone from the stands spin the board for the draw… and have the board divided into fourths… each forth has the same numbers (so its a fair spin).
One week, have a child spin, another week a parent, another week a sweet little grandmother, another week have a first time fan do the spin. This will involve the fans more and when a high number appears, watch the excitment build over those other weeks.
If this brings back the crowd who really wants to watch a race rather than follow the leader… more income and perhaps more in payout money… Have a fund set aside for any driver who wins from the scratch position… the fund rolls over and gets larger each week until won… if not won, roll it over to the point money for the end of the season… but let everyone (drivers and fans) konw how much it is every week. (heck, pass the helmets each week and add that to the pot as well).
In other words… GET SOME MORE EXCITMENT INTO THE RACING THAT INVOLVES THE FAN’S.
OSF: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004:
“Have a fund set aside for any driver who wins from the scratch position… the fund rolls over and gets larger each week until won… if not won, roll it over to the point money for the end of the season… but let everyone (drivers and fans) konw how much it is every week. (heck, pass the helmets each week and add that to the pot as well).”
Hey OSF, that is a heck of an idea! Come on Bobby Diehl, come on Mike Peters, somebody try this!!
hey boneman back up north at cms they already do that. they have for atleast 15 years the best racing in the world i think
[QUOTE=Boneman;23658]“Have a fund set aside for any driver who wins from the scratch position… the fund rolls over and gets larger each week until won… if not won, roll it over to the point money for the end of the season… but let everyone (drivers and fans) konw how much it is every week. (heck, pass the helmets each week and add that to the pot as well).”
Hey OSF, that is a heck of an idea! Come on Bobby Diehl, come on Mike Peters, somebody try this!![/QUOTE]
Yeah it does seem like a good idea. I think the dirt tracks would give it out fairly often. The question I have is what class are you doing this for? Just the headline class with a handful of cars or the pure stocks that have a whole bunch or all the classes? If the pot get very large you may have drivers fighting for the scratch position. 
This was a great thread, I hope some of the owners and promotors of our tracks have read this and try some of the great ideas that have been posted. I know nothing stays the same and back then was then and now is now, but I really believe most of these ideas posted would help our short track racing here in Florida. Just think about the old school racing. Only 4 or 5 divisions, bring back heat races, dash’s and pursuit races. Oh yea please lets get back to inverts in all races. Fast guy on the pole is good for only one person…
Winger , why not every class , every night . I can’t think of one class or car type that completely inverted starts wouldn’t make more exciting . And i’m also a little surprised that some more track owners haven’t responded to this thread . East Bay , DeSoto , Bronson , Putnam , North Florida , New Smyrna and Orlando , Five Flags . Where are the track owners and promoters’ ( aside from Ocala ) ideas and suggestions for what is apparently a pretty good idea ?
It should probably be every class. I was just thinking of the logistics. When you go through collecting money, what class are you collecting for? Are you collecting for all classes and then dividing money? Is money then divided evenly or on a formula depending on car count, etc.? Also, you don’t want to slow the show up to spin a wheel for every race so you would need to have that set up so it could be done during the previous winners interview. I do like the idea. I was just asking some things that may not have been thought of.
WING WINGER WINGEST (See I Remember My English)
The collection of money from fans was a spur of the moment suggestion. The original thought was the track would increase that pot each week until it was won.
As far as the time element you mentioned… JAX Speedway did it as the cars lined up for their features. Boom, the 6 or 8 was the result of the spin, someone in the infield held up a 6 or 8 sign and believe it or not, the drivers were smart enough to re-align themselves for the start (oh once in a while a corner man might have had to help point to the proper position).
What really amazed me this morning was the statement that CAR COUNT IS EVERYTHING… I sure as heck don’t agree with that… You could have 450 cars and if they follow the leader… this boy aint’ coming back.
A real racer doesn’t have to start up front, he/she knows and has the ability to come through the pack to get that checkered.
But, we as humans don’t like change and that’s understandable… OCALA seems to be on the front line to stretch their comfort zone… God only knows they took a chance last year by going to dirt and I am sure they are glad now that they did so. OCALA could have said… “This is the way we always did it” (And they could still would be getting the results they got way back then Too)
I sure as heck have gotten away from FOLLOW THE LEADER races.
OSF: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004: :ernaehrung004:
I always liked that set up,and enjoyed coming from the back,it made a way better show,for a time we even got a extra $50 for back to back main event wins from dead last place start.
Back when the car count was above 15 cars every class,and a few close to 30.
Boneman, elaborate on this idea a little more. I don’t understand it completely. I’m working on an idea right now for the fans to determine the invert instead of the driver pulling the pill.
http://www.tbara.net/sinfo.php
Mike,
The link above leads you to the TBARA rule book. Towards the end of the book, they spell out their handicapping procedure. It is a comprehensive description, but they appear to leave nothing unresolved. Even if it is not the perfect system, it is a proven one that has been operated successfully for years. It requires no time trials, and is based on recent finishes.
I like their system for two reasons: first, it produces excellent racing. No one passes more than the TBARA, and that is a combination of their starting system, and no emphasis on parity, but that is an entirely different topic. The second reason I like it is that it won’t be as difficult to put into practice as some may think. Naturally, there will be plenty of track workers who don’t want to change anything, but they have to get over it. The fans are demanding a better show, and this system would be a huge step forward.
AND, be sure to add the bonus for starting in the back. Kudos to OSF for bringing it up in this thread, and to Ron McCreary, a guy who has put it in practice for years and entertained many fans along the way.
he’h i like that idea
pass the helment around in stands and add that to purse if the guy starts in rear … but you got to have a full feild of cars not no 7 or 8 cars spilt money with top three 60 percent out of helment to winner then 20% to 2 20% TO 3rd place plus purse … don’t put car on pole that has won 25 races and high point man and expect some one to start in rear and catch him
one of worse things i hate when i go to races is to have a car out front running 20 mph slower than guy behind him and using mirrow and you could not pass him with a dump truck and just as quick as second place car finally gets by him leader dumps second place car and flagman was looking at moon and puts head booper back up front if leader is holding up hold pack
flagman do something we come to watch a race i’m not saying put bumper to and spin him out but he can;t have hole race track
now that SpeedTV has gone fag for Unique Whips, Pinks and Wrecked
Todd please don’t let me read those type of quotes in the morning when I’m drinking my coffee. Now I have to buy a new keyboard!
take of the plastic and put on nerf bars
Rex that is the best suggestion I’ve seen yet. If I knew I could race and take a few hits without having to spend my life savings to repair the car I’d be out there every week.
Like I have said earlier in this post, I think there are a lot of great ideas here, but I just don’t like the idea of passing a helmet around for fans to pay the bonus for starting in the rear of the field.(1) The fan has payed there money to get in and watch the races and I for one hate when a track is passing a hat or helmet or a boot to collect money for what ever. A lot of people feel like there being pressured to give money when someone walks up in front of them for a hand-out. Set up a table for charity by front gate and if someone wants to donate they will, if not they are not approachedin the stands. (2) Remember I’m old school, I think the fast guy should be starting last anyways, you know like how it was done back in the day. Fast guys to the back and lets see a guy drive to the front and show he is a real driver…
Chassis is right. I’ve been talked in to passing the hat (by our esteemed announcer) and you do get some dirty looks. These people already paid to be there, they don’t need to pay more dollars on top of the $20 admission fee and $5 hot dogs.
Go out and get some SPONSORS!