OK here it is on a new tread and a new subject.
Some won out there think that the rules have something to do with who wins the race. if you look at 10 years of racing at NSS SLM race winners you will find that 5 teams win most of the races and changing the rules wont change that. the rules have been changed trying to change that for so long till the teams couldnt keep up. the winners will (buy the rules) get what it takes to win… they will have best stuff and do the most work to have a winning car. Then they will be or have one of the 5 drivers that can win. The best car with one of the best drivers will win. Changing the rules wont stop that…Working as hard as they do to win will get you in that top 6 and have a chance to win. 2 of the cars that has won most of the big races have all 3 types of cars and will use them when its to there advantage. So if you dont win it not the rules that make you not win. It will make you spend more money. I rember the gear rule. it was cheep. every one went out and got new engines and trans and cams and so forth. change some little thing and then hold on. Left side thats all? I agree small thing…Now someone is going to build a whole car to fit that 2 % with some new trick shocks and a arms with a new strut and mount. one of the cars that win will have all that ra parts supplyer on his car weather it helps or not . Now everyone thinks they need it to win??? So spend some more money!!! How about DONT CHANGE RULES!!! I was guilty of doing this and can see it from here now.
this is not football ware there is only 2 teams. in this sport some one has to finish 5th 6th and so forth. only 1 can win!
It is not the car but the operator. If you are not as good as the driver that is winning dont blame the car, go out and work on your set up and practice.
Dont have a LM and its a little late because of all the changes already but. Imagine that the cars all have the same chassis rules…motor rules…leftside weight rules…tire rules. Wouldnt that put a cap on how much the BIG money teams could actually do ? And even out the playing field a little ? And im not saying that there should be only supers. crates with crates same rules. limited with limited same rules? just a thought. We built a sportsman for citrus…cant run at P.G. and have to change weight elsewere ?? sportsman …mods…lates…sprints should be one set of rules per class or guess what…controversy
Winning is a package deal. It’s not one piece of the puzzle that makes any TEAM win. The pieces of the puzzle are the car, the engine, the set-up, the tires, the maintenance program, the race hauler, team members, the driver, and good luck. If one piece of the puzzle is missing you can still win if the second place car is missing a larger piece of the puzzle. It boils down to how big is your package ? :ernaehrung004:
Don. Get your facts right if you are going to talk about me. I never said that the rules make you win. I said that the rules make you loose. There is a big difference. The way the rules are a crate can’t win on the big tracks. And they can’t. That is because of the rules. Nothing else.
So Don. A set of rules was put out to combined pro late models and supers. Don if the rules have nothing to do with what car wins. Than Don, I want to ask you this.
Why did they add weight to the super to allow them to run with the pros/crates if the rules mean nothing??? Why didn’t they just leave them at 2700 lbs??? Why Don. Why did they CHANGE the rule???
Because if they didn’t change the rules no other car could touch a super on any track. They had to change The rule to try and level the field. They need to do more. It wasn’t enough.
The rules will not make you win. But with a combined series the rules can make it to where certain type of cars can not win. That is the problem. It is a combined series and it is a handicap series. That is a little different when you don’t have different cars competing against each other. You have to do something to level the field.
On the other thread is was said to Don. Don you are wrong. Just because we are under a different thread nothing has changed. Don you are still wrong. It ain’t going to change. You know nothing about a combine series and handicapping cars.
Don in Florida there are other combine races. In the last two years only 2 crates have won races against the supers. One is Shelnut with 3 wins and The other is Dunn with 2 wins. These car are no slouches. They can win against any super on a given weekend if the rules are equal. Do you know why these car and many others do not run the bigger tracks. Because the rules say that these cars can’t compete on the bigger tracks. Don. Get over it. You have been wrong many times before and I am sure this isn’t the last.
Don if the rules can’t make you loose than why don’t they just run the street stock with the minis and the bombers with the emods. You don’t even need to read their rules to know what type of car will win. We have the same thing with Fups except it is supers and crates.
Don you have a phobia about changing rules. I got this picture in my head of you dad beating your ass yelling “WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE RULE JUST FOR YOU”. whack whack whack whack. And you crying “no rule change please daddy, stop beating please”. Whack whack whack
Well that proves it to me. MR south wants to argue and call names and i said i wount do that with a da racer anymore.
what the point is is that becarefull when you think of rule changes. you have had to many changes already and more will help somone like Mr south and hert someone else. track rules are just what they say. what works here!
Did shelnut bring a crate engine to NSS (no) it wont work there when there are suppers there. the SLM will have to ad so mutch weight and run a plate that is so small that they wont want to go and noone would want to watch.
its 2 clases so make it that way and let the real race cars go fast and the hobby stocks run there own race.
If you mr south knew my father then you could speak of him!
Don. I don’t know you or your father but I do have this picture in my head of both of you with you bent over crying. But than again, I got a picture in my head of everybody on here.
Do you see where I was arguing with you? I asked you some questions that YOU can’t answer. When you can’t answer you argue not me. You wanted to start it with me. Now you say I am calling you names. Like I said. You say what you want to make your story sound good. What I said is in type on this page. No name calling. Why do you make this shit up. Does it make you feel good. Again, you are wrong Don. Imagine that. Wrong again. I just didn’t realize it would be this soon.
So again. Could you copy and paste where I called you names Don or just point it out if you don’t have that capability. Or are you just making shit up again like everything you post.
And now you want to compare the super late model class from 10 years ago to a combines late model class. That could only come from you Don. That is like comparing an apple to a bowling ball. You are living in the past. There is a reason it is called the past Don. Welcome to the future. Wake up and come along.
So again. Could you copy and paste where I called you names Don or just point it out if you don’t have that capability. Or are you just making shit up again like everything you post.
Don you have a phobia about changing rules. I got this picture in my head of you dad beating your ass yelling “WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE RULE JUST FOR YOU”. whack whack whack whack. And you crying “no rule change please daddy, stop beating please”. Whack whack whack
Sounds to me like you’re calling Don a “whack job”. Sorry, I just couldn’t resist.
Actually, I think Don makes some valid points. I probably disagree with a lot of what he posts at times but he has made some valid points in this discussion. If you change the rules to what you suggest, by changing side percentages and weight, the guys that are now winning are going to invest in new chassis, bars, shocks, etc. to compensate. Then you’ll be at a disadvantage again unless you spend more money to keep up. I completely understand why you want to change the rules to make your car competitive at the bigger tracks and I sympathize with you. I think FUPS could probably make a rule adjustment if they felt so inclined. By not changing the rules, perhaps they are sending the crate owners a message that they are not going to support this division in their series. I don’t know that’s what they’re doing but it would appear they are if they aren’t willing to discuss it. Perhaps they figure it would be cheaper for the few crate cars to upgrade to the present set of rules rather than having others spend the money to stay up front. Hmmmm, sounds like a conspiracy.
Rules have to changes, sometimes. But if not informed it makes no differance. I wanted to print a copy but couldn’t find them. Was told" Jeff" changed them so many times they stop posting them. Jeff? I doubt it. Kinda like my wife’s job, she’s the manager, manager when the help cries, manager when management bitches, basically has no authority over the help. She reprimands a person they go over her head and gets overruled. I’ve told her to resign many times but she vats a good schedule. Same with Jeff, depending on who/when he dqs someone, his boss comes running over and tries to overrule him. It’s soo obvious it’s almost funny. I know someone gradually working on a dupes stock, he asked me to pint the rules, I can’t find them. Maybe they’re there. Was told to call the track, who has the say and would they be willing to put it in writing?
The past is the past but how come 15 years ago there was 1 Late Model. The same late Model you could take from Sunshine to Citrus to Desoto to Punta Gorda to Orlando to Auburndale. What happened to that Late Model. Someone asked me how all dirt tracks can run Late Models on a Saturday night and have a good turn-out at all tracks. It’s because there is 1 Late Model that is legal and it is the same Late Model from here to Virginia.
Actually the dirt late models are basically in the same boat but they have adjustments for the different motor combinations. The Dirt Super Lates don’t run in Florida except for speedweeks or a special WoO or Lucas show. Few of the local late model guys have a speical super but a few have motors to drop in their regular ride if they choose to run with the WoO or Lucas series. I’m going to paste a section from the BRP rules showing how the dirt lates adjust for the different combinations. In actuality, I believe there are probably more combinations in dirt but they make it work. You also have to realize dirt is different and side weight isn’t an issue with these cars as they are with asphalt. You actually need a dirt car to transfer it’s weight, although apparently not as much as several years ago.
Gm crate motor cars 2250 lb with 12? spoiler.
Nlms cars 2300 lb with 8? spoiler and crate side spoilers.
East Bay 362ci motor cars 2450. 8? spoiler. Must be teched after race for weight inspection.
BTW MW68SS, I agree with you in theory. 1 late model or car in any division is enough. If you want to run a less expensive class, move down one. A sportsman might be a better fit.
Winger I wanted to reply to your other post. ,“whack job”. Winger I have to say that was pretty funny. But about the points that you thought might be valid are really pretty far fetched in this day in age. Maybe 40 years. The deal is the rules already allow $20,000 shocks. There ain’t no such thing as a trick shock any more. $15,000 trannys. There rules on these chassis were written in 1995 and the rules are the rules. These chassis aint getting much better. They have been refined for 15 years. You can only put the motor in a certain position plus or minus 1 inch. You can only put the fuel cell in a certain position. This series has no price cap on brakes. They already have the best brakes. You can run composite drive shaft. what I am saying is that it isn’t like the ASA/Pro late model series was based on where you could only spend $300 per brake, $2000 for tranny, $350 per shock and things like that. This series caters to the big money teams. Those teams already have the best of the best. Nobody is complaining about that. But to also have the hp to weight ratio so lop sided in their direction. Why even race. If they can’t beat a crate with 3 percent less weight they really ain’t as good as some makes them out to be. Like Don said. If you can’t beat them. Spend more money. That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Is it just me.
If you really read the rules like I do there was some stuff written into these rules about chassis that is different than the “standard” chassis rules. That was the problem I had with these rules when they were written. If you built a car too the tee to these rules that FAST put out and Fups uses, the car would not be legal anywhere in the country. But it would be a special built car just for these rules. With that being said and knowing who wrote most of these rules. Who do you think has one of these special built cars? Which other guys do you think can afford to build a special car just for Florida? Why do you think these guys don’t take these cars out of Florida and clean house like they do in Florida? Why not the Snowball or The Race? I know the answers.
That is why I know when the deck is stacked against you before you leave the house. Anybody can believe what ever they want but I do own a late model and I do know the rules. And I do know that when you say 55 left. I dont care what you think you are going the car 55 is 55. Left side weight is the great equalizer. If that don’t work do 53. Its free.
EVERYBODY PLEASE DISREGARD THIS UNTIL I POST A WARNING!!! THIS IS FOR DON NERONE
Don. You pm is full. When you hide behind your screen a pm me and threaten the life of my wife and my children and threaten to burn my house down you should really expect for me to pm you back. I have a written reply that I have tried to send you before I post a warning about you and post the pm you sent to me on this site and every other racing site I visit. Just because it is a pm does not mean it isn’t illegal. And you put it in type. Your father must really be proud of you. Man up and clean out your pm.