[QUOTE=kendo;149906]My statement was based on the fact that it is their 1st year under new management and no doubt appear to be headed in the right direction…Change may,or may not be a good thing for them at this early juncture.
On the other hand,NSS has made many changes and cant seem to break through that 35-45 car ceiling on a consistant basis,for quite a few years now…At this point,they have nothing to loose by making the tire change.[/QUOTE]
They definitely appear to be headed in the right direction. Agree 1000%! I think they may be at the upper limit of car count though based off what we see across the state. If all the tracks see the benefit and can hop on board, it may benefit everyone. If you look at car counts across the state, Coulter Trucks, SLM and PLM all seem to have decent car counts as do bigger OWM and Sportsman shows, but when you get down into the weekly shows and lower divisions, they struggle it seems to get more than 7-12 cars weekly. I think a lot of that has to do with the budget some of those guys are operating on and finding ways to make it more affordable will certainly help more cars show up as well as potentially attract new drivers too.
I do think Desoto could benefit from this as well. Especially if it is something instituted for the 2015 season because everyone will be buying new tires anyway so it won’t hurt them. Sure, it may take some money away from Hoosier and the Track in tire sales and I understand that ultimately they need to make more money, but if they are getting more drivers buying tires, more people in the pits, more people in the stands etc because of better and more racers there, the loss has the potential to be minimized. Kind of goes along with the “you have to spend money to make money” thought in terms of it may benefit them to take the hit now and make up for it in the long run. Get what I mean?
Will continue to chat tomorrow. Heading to the shop for the night. Have a good night
Maybe i’m mis-reading this thread, but i’m understanding that there are three tires in question. The one Desoto currently uses, the one that Scott and Phil want to use, and another one that Desoto and Hoosier say is even better than those two. Am i correct?
If so, let’s see what this third tire can do. I know that tire construction can be just as valuable as tread compound in making a tire grip. So maybe Hoosier has something else, a third tire. Why doesn’t someone with contacts at Desoto/Hoosier pursue this a little bit and not spend so much time obsessing over this 800 tire. If there are in fact three separate tires we’re talking about, then someone needs to get their hands on a set of these third tires ( you already have the other two ) and test. If nothing else, test all three on one car during Friday night practice at Desoto.
But if you think changing to a different tire is going to revitalize short track racing in Florida, you’re going to be very disappointed. There are many, far more important problems to solve.
[QUOTE=Phil Jacques;149909] I think a lot of that has to do with the budget some of those guys are operating on and finding ways to make it more affordable will certainly help more cars show up as well as potentially attract new drivers too.
[/QUOTE]
I agree,as long as I have to bolt on 2-4 new stickers to be competitive,I will drive past the asphalt track and head to the dirt track
Ok, so I had a long nice conversation with Kim Brown and Robert Hart today and I was also in touch with my friend Critter from Desoto. Here’s what’s going down. Personally I am very suspect of the guy from Hoosier Tire South. He has been telling Critter all kinds of different things since the “Great Tire Discussion of 2014” began. After a lot of planning he has changed courses more times than a fat guy at Golden Corral. He also has been feeding Critter some information that upon further investigation is not true. This stuff makes Critter look bad when indeed Critter was the first one to step forward to look at the 800. Critter is one of the heros here, not the villain. Hoosier South promised and promised and delivered nothing. Well now the gig is up for Hoosier South. Critter wants to test this new tire Hoosier is proposing AND he has insisted that the 800 be tested alongside it. New Smyrna has also been promised by Hoosier South to get a tire test. At this point I really don’t trust Hoosier South to follow through so me, Patrick and NSS are going to hold their feet to the fire by testing the Hoosier 800s that I have, on our own. Robert Hart told me today that he is committed to finding a tire that will last a lot longer and doesn’t care if that means losing money on tire sales. So we are going to throw the kitchen sink at this deal and objectively come up with a tire that lasts and more importantly is safe. The 800 and the new tire will be tested at Desoto AND New Smyrna. A big thank you to Robert Hart, Kim Brown and Critter for pushing for what is right. AND a big thank you to Butch Pierce and Chad Pierce for clearing up what testing had indeed occurred in the past. The guy from Hoosier South was trying to bullshit everyone about the 800 being tested in Florida, when it had not. In the end both the 800 and the new tire will be tested and we will get the tire that we truly need. First up will be Patrick testing a two race old set of 800s against the regular Sportsman field (+ me!) on the current tire on September 6th at NSS. Fellow competitors are welcome to stop by and take a look at them. After that we will see what Hoosier South actually does.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;149910]Maybe i’m mis-reading this thread, but i’m understanding that there are three tires in question. The one Desoto currently uses, the one that Scott and Phil want to use, and another one that Desoto and Hoosier say is even better than those two. Am i correct?
If so, let’s see what this third tire can do. I know that tire construction can be just as valuable as tread compound in making a tire grip. So maybe Hoosier has something else, a third tire. Why doesn’t someone with contacts at Desoto/Hoosier pursue this a little bit and not spend so much time obsessing over this 800 tire. If there are in fact three separate tires we’re talking about, then someone needs to get their hands on a set of these third tires ( you already have the other two ) and test. If nothing else, test all three on one car during Friday night practice at Desoto.
But if you think changing to a different tire is going to revitalize short track racing in Florida, you’re going to be very disappointed. There are many, far more important problems to solve.[/QUOTE]
Matt, this is all good except the set of 800s we have are already 2 races deep. Would have to get 1 brand new set of 800s to do a from scratch comparison so that all 3 sets could be run the same exact nights. I think that’s the only way to truly get an honest start to finish test between the 800 and the proposed tire.
As far as revitalizing, no. That’s not the expectation, but it will help guys who only race part time to be able to race more often. There ARE more important problems to solve. But let’s tackle the sensible and simplER ones first.
Exactly what I was angry about and thought should happen and glad that it turned out this way. Personally, if they have a better tire than we have, then that’s awesome! But it’s no reason to shut out the 800 completely. Give it a fair shake and see what happens. Props to Critter, Kim and Robert for doing all of this. I wish I could bring the ole 77 down to join in the fun! I think she would go good with the rest of the Sportsmans even though it’s just a G car.
So, undeterred by Jeff from Hoosier Tire South’s inconsistency in following through with a tire test in FL we headed to New Smyrna Speedway yesterday with hopes of testing our Hoosier 800s on Patrick Thomas’s #25 Sportsman. Techman Jeff Sutcliffe came by and thoroughly inspected these tires and did a durometer (tire softness) comparison. Jeff gave the 800 the big thumbs up and was interested in seeing the performance and durability of the 800 in competition. Everbody that looked at the 800s couldn’t believe that the tires had 2 race nights on them. They looked new. Me and Patrick took our Sportsman cars out on the current tires for a shakedown in practice, then bolted up the 800s on the 25 and waited to go out. Unfortunately Mother Nature refused to cooperate and despite New Smyrna Speedway’s usual tenacity in trying to get the show in, it became apparent around 7 p.m. that the rain was not going to relent and reluctantly cancelled the show. Good call because it rained the rest of the night. However we remain committed to test this tire and show it’s resiliency, suitability and safety. We will return on 9/27 for the Sportsman portion of the Super Late Model 100 night and test the 800 on Patrick’s #25 Sportsman. Stay tuned and we will give a full report on how these tires fared after that event.
I will take the blame for not getting this tire test started earlier on Saturday. We are trying a couple new very aggressive set ups that have been working pretty well, but require a couple practice’s to get ride heights set. We took 2 practices to make shock changes we needed to try, then we decided we were happy with the car so we put the 800’s on. That’s when the rains came. The tires look great, they are hard, but we will get to see soon enough if they are an alternative to the 650/450 super soft tire we have now.
[QUOTE=Patrick Thomas 25;150298]I will take the blame for not getting this tire test started earlier on Saturday. We are trying a couple new very aggressive set ups that have been working pretty well, but require a couple practice’s to get ride heights set. We took 2 practices to make shock changes we needed to try, then we decided we were happy with the car so we put the 800’s on. That’s when the rains came. The tires look great, they are hard, but we will get to see soon enough if they are an alternative to the 650/450 super soft tire we have now.
Patrick Thomas 25[/QUOTE]
No need to take any blame Patrick. It happens. Least you got some laps this week… The Speedbowl “rained out” yet it never rained a drop at the shop Saturday and I was there till 1am… In fact, it was one of the nicest days all year haha! Go figure!
Nobody ever thought Critter WAS the bad guy. Or Jimmy, or anyone at Desoto Speedway.
Just a thought here, but after trashing Hoosier Southeast, where did you plan to get the tires that win this shootout. I suspect the guys at Hoosier Southeast aren’t going to go out of their way to help you, and the shipping from anywhere else is really going to add to the price of each tire.
So late Saturday Night at New Smyrna Speedway it was decided that the long awaited, much anticipated Hoosier Tire Test was going to be done Tuesday October 7th from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m… Unfortunately, (due to being a dumbass and forgetting my cellphone in South Daytona Sunday) I didn’t get word until Monday night. I decided not to jinx the whole affair (like my previous testing announcements), kept it to myself and made the long 3hr drive to NSS with one of my crew guys and my super-custom Tire Test Data Log and every tire measuring device in the 07 Sportsman trailer. When I pulled onto Pit Road I found the 25 Sportsman of Patrick Thomas and the 23 Super Stock of Shannon Kelly up on jackstands, without wheels, hungrily awaiting new sticker tires of a different type. Perfect. I couldn’t think of two better drivers/cars to test some new Hoosier tires with. Patrick and Shannon are not only two of the fastest drivers in their respected classes but also two of the smoothest. Present in the pits were the NSS tech team and Kim Brown. Somehow NSS was able to procure sets of Hoosier 800’s and Hoosier 700’s (The much vaunted “super-duper, incredibly long-lasting yet ultra-sticky New Hoosier Mystery Tire” never materialized. Shocker.). Both cars tested the 800’s, the Hoosier 700’s and both also ran laps on the Phil Jacques provided 100 lap, 1 year old 800’s. Every detailed bit of information that could be obtained from the running of these tires was recorded. I would love to spill the beans on what went down, but I was required by Kim Brown to swear on a stack of Bibles and Clyde Hart’s grave that I would not divulge the top secret information obtained in the Twilight Tire Tests (although I swear I saw Bill Belicheck secretly videotaping from behind the turn three wall). I CAN say this, the tire test went very well and there were even some amazing surprises that we didn’t anticipate. Although the actual test was “Top Secret”, the information obtained in these tests will not be for long. The NSS brass have all of the information, are reviewing it and will be making an announcement soon as to what changes will or will not be made in regards to tires for the classes that currently run 8" ribbed Hoosiers for 2015. Once the announcement is made, I was assured that all the data we obtained will be made public to assure 100% transparency on this matter. After the tests were concluded and after much deliberation over, of course, SUDS, a conference call was made with head tech Honcho, Ricky Brooks and he was briefed on the proceedings. I want to thank Kim Brooks and everyone at NSS for looking at this thread and asking themselves “Are we in the tire selling business or in the racing business?”. Well, let me tell you, the folks at NSS are indeed in the racing business and want what’s best for the racer and fan alike. Regardless of what decision is made from this point, we have conducted a thorough scientific review of these tires and compared that to what we currently run. That is all I was looking for. Just an honest and unbiased, fact-based comparison. I would also like to thank Patrick Thomas and Shannon Kelly for taking their personal time and spending their personal money to bring these cars to the track and run a ton of laps putting wear and tear on their very fast and capable machines. They didn’t have to do this. I also want to thank Shannon for providing everyone with SUDS at the conclusion of the test. You sir, are a man after my own heart, lol. As the sun set over the grandstands of legendary New Smyrna Speedway, I couldn’t help but think that all of us together had done our sport a tremendous service in helping to promote it’s longevity and rebirth and that a new day was on the horizon where we could at least try to create an environment that would foster a return to big car counts, competitive racing and a whole helluva lot of fun for everyone. Again, thanks to everyone involved and stay tuned…
Just little full of yourself aren’t you? You seem to think that your obsession with this Hoosier tire is going to " foster a return…blah, blah " But you know for a fact the the choice of tires, or their price, is not the reason for low car counts. And you also know for a fact that changing the tire used, or it’s price, isn’t going to bring cars out of the woodwork. That’s like the NASCAR theory that low fan counts at DIS are because the grandstands weren’t fancy enough and there were no vertical transporters at the injectors. The remodel isn’t going to solve the problem.
Was the " much vaunted, super duper, incredibly long lasting, yet ultra sticky New Hoosier Mystery tire" requested for this test? And what was the reason given by Hoosier for the tire not being there? I’m sure you asked.
But thanks to New Smyrna for the test. I’ve read good things about Kim and the NSS rebirth.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;151374]Just little full of yourself aren’t you? You seem to think that your obsession with this Hoosier tire is going to " foster a return…blah, blah " But you know for a fact the the choice of tires, or their price, is not the reason for low car counts. And you also know for a fact that changing the tire used, or it’s price, isn’t going to bring cars out of the woodwork. That’s like the NASCAR theory that low fan counts at DIS are because the grandstands weren’t fancy enough and there were no vertical transporters at the injectors. The remodel isn’t going to solve the problem.
Was the " much vaunted, super duper, incredibly long lasting, yet ultra sticky New Hoosier Mystery tire" requested for this test? And what was the reason given by Hoosier for the tire not being there? I’m sure you asked.
But thanks to New Smyrna for the test. I’ve read good things about Kim and the NSS rebirth.[/QUOTE]
While changing the tire may not be the complete answer for getting cars back to the track, it is a big step in the right direction. Cutting the tire bill down will allow more cars to show up on a more consistent basis. This actually is a huge step forward on getting cars back to the track on a weekly basis.
By doing this tire test it continues to show that the New Smyrna staff do care about their racers. I haven’t always seen eye to eye with the staff there, but I will honestly say they are doing a great job of running the show up there. If they saw something they liked last night in the tire test ,and do change I’m sure the savings will bring more cars back. Tires are by far the biggest weekly expensive for most racers, so I know I would love to save some money there. I would also like to thank New Smyrna for listening to the racers and Scott for pushing for this.
Well I know they tested the 800 at NSS.
So tell us how it went.
How many laps did they test them and how many times.
How fast slow were they
id we find out anytheing about how long they will last
do they repeat
How did they do on long runs …Like 25 or 35 laps
What were the temps
What happened???
don62
[QUOTE=Patrick Thomas 25;151464]The results will be out as soon as Ricky Brooks analyzes the data, and they decide what will be the best for the racers. Stay tuned.
Patrick Thomas 25[/QUOTE]
So Ricky was there ? cool I heard that there wasent any one there that know how to test tires.
I did test that tire under a different # right after the track was paved on a mod and it didn’t take heat well but the track is older now and might work out on low horse cars.
4 practices and 2 features