Giving the option of a 602 with a 650 four barrel. Or a 603 zz4 motor with the 2 barrel. Which is a better way to go if I were to go purchase one new. I can’t seem to get a straight answer
From the testing that has been done they seem to be pretty equal. Here’s the difference. The 603 is about $1000 more than the 602, however a good 4 bbl is about $350 more than a good 2 bbl (VDL, Braswell, etc.). The 603 has aluminum heads and takes 50 lbs off the nose vs. A 602, which helps handling. A 603 is exclusive to the trucks where a 602 is used for trucks, sportsman and super stocks and some street stocks if you want to sell it one day.
There’s no real performance advantage in the new truck rules for either motor. The 602 will come out quite a bit cheaper over the 603 tho. We did have some issues with a 603 a few seasons back, and I don’t know if GM ever got all that straightened out. I’m confident enough in the 602 I’ve already got 2 ready to go in my trucks for next season, and I know a few other competitors who have already or are making the change to the 602.
Thanks. I just got a truck and need a motor. I was leaning towards the 602. Thanks again
Scott (& gang),
Are the racing 4 barrel carbs progressive (theoretically giving more punch out of the hole) or of larger CFM (better speed at the end of the straight) or an advantage in any other fashion to a racing 2bbl?
For some reason an e-mod seems “lazy” compared to a sportsman engine.
Any other thoughts pertinent to the discussion…?
The Sportsman and Trucks are allowed the 4bbl, the Emods (RIP), Super Stocks and Street Stocks have to run the 2 bbl with the 602. Probably why the Emods look “lazy”. The 4 bbl is 650 cfm and the 2 bbl is 500 cfm. The secondaries on the 4bbl are mechanical and kick in right away depending on the accelerator pump cam. No matter what crate you run I recommend the MSD soft-touch rev control with no greater than a 6200 rpm chip in it. You don’t want to over-rev these engines. They are prone to valve float at high rpm and go kablooey in a heartbeat. Even if you are geared correctly and just miss a shift the results can be catastrophic.
So the trucks are running the 602 crate motor? Is this a new series or the same. where are the rules posted at I would like to read them thanks.
New rule for 2015 in the same Joey Coulter Truck Series.
Thanks Scott . funny really all the talk about dropping the E-mods because they ran the 602 motor which I thought was a stupid move on New Smyrna’s part . Now the trucks are using them smart move for the truck series .
New Smyrna didn’t drop the Emods because of the 602. Many Emods didn’t run the 602, some ran the built motor option. New Smyrna’s car counts have been on the rise for all of it’s classes except the Emods. NSS ran them and gave them a chance when all the other tracks killed the class. Unfortunately the handwriting was on the wall when it became evident that the class wasn’t growing with only one place to run. At least maybe some of the Emod teams can sell their 602’s to Truck (or Sportsman, Super Stock or Street Stock) guys and get a couple of grand towards building a Open Mod motor or that killer 485 hp Ford spec that Speedway Motors is selling for around $5000.
Scott I only knew of Two E-mods that didn’t run the crate motor . the E-mod did have more cars on a regular race night. the nights they ran big motor class they had e-mods running with them if you took out the e-mods they had about 4/5 big motor mods showing up . they think that this is going to help the big motor class its not . this will only help the sportsman, super stock and trucks now .
I understand, but my point was they didn’t kill the class because of the 602. True the Open Mods car counts have been a disappointment at NSS also. I’m not sure the decision to kill Emods was to boost the Open Mod class but I’d be willing to bet a few will make the change. I’m not sure why the OWM’s draw so well on the West Coast but not so much at NSS. Maybe it’s because NSS is such a “motor” track for OWM’s. Maybe it’s the dominance of Symons and Tucker. Personally I could never understand a class that has some SB2 Cup motors and other $25-30000 motors running on a stock frame for a regular $650 to win. I heard that when they started the class in FL they had IMCA type rules. It’s too bad they got away from that. The class would be a lot healthier today.
“[Maybe there are small modified fields] because NSS is such a “motor” track for OWM’s. Maybe it’s the dominance of Symons and Tucker. Personally I could never understand a class that has some SB2 Cup motors and other $25-30000 motors running on a stock frame for a regular $650 to win. I heard that when they started the class in FL they had IMCA type rules. It’s too bad they got away from that. The class would be a lot healthier today.” –SG
All true, sir. The answer lies somewhere in the middle. Big Motor = Big Money = few cars. E-mod = well, you know, and it is a moot point now anyway.
They used to run claimer motors with decent fields and decent competition. The claim was $500. The idea was that you could not build a motor for that, but you have to sell it for that, and therefore limit your investment. Junkyard motors with a big cam was the ticket, and most teams had two or three.
Perhaps a $2,000 claim would do the same trick these days. I anticipate the mods going away there altogether.
They would be a good co-premier class at Bithlo if the ball is ever picked up over there…Either claimers or 602s w/4bbl–the other premier class of course–Sportsman.
Ironic how much trouble is gone to in order to dial a class out of existence.
I don’t know if the claimer thing would help at this point. I think the IMCA rules were good, not necessarily the claimer rule. I have always had mixed emotions on that deal. I feel a claimer rule is only 100% good for Crate only classes (with the claim being the cost of a new crate). With good tech a claimer rule is unecessary, IMO. Making people build new engines will not help OWM car counts. I’m not really sure what can help OWM car counts at NSS at this point. Maybe larger purses could lure some of the west coast teams east.
SG–Forgive my ingnance, but what engine rules does IMCA run?
ps–with a claim rule tech itself is unneccessary. One guy ran a caddilac–no one claimed his motor, and after the races he pulled stumps out of the parking lot (okay, so I made the last part up…).
Check 'em out: www.imca.com/rules/modified/
- ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS: All cars utilizing a GM604 crate engine must clearly display on both front roof posts the word CRATE. Must be contrasting in color from body, minimum two inches tall. Markers not acceptable.
(A) CRATE ENGINE: Must use unaltered sealed GM #88958604 or #19318604 crate engine with additional IMCA Cable-Lok system – NO EXCEPTIONS. Upon inspection, any different, altered or missing GM seal bolts or IMCA Cable-Loks will result in disqualifcation, loss of all IMCA points for the season, $5,000 fne and a 30-day suspension from all IMCA-sanctioned events. GM seal bolt exception is IMCA approved and issued Cable-Lok repair system, oil pan may be replaced by IMCA certifed repair center with Champ pan #CP100LTRB and Champ pick- up #100SB. $250 fne for any crate engine not using required pushrods, valve springs or rocker arms. $250 fne for utilizing altered rev-limiter components. Any driver using crate engine cannot claim engine or have engine claimed. During same season, no driver is allowed to claim an engine after competing with a crate. If a driver switches to a crate after claiming an engine, the crate engine is then claimable.
(B) CLAIM ENGINE: Any American make steel engine block allowed. Aftermarket and OEM performance blocks allowed. Cast iron or aluminum intake manifolds only. Steel cylinder heads and oil pan only. Flat tappet cam/lifters and stud-mounted rocker arms only. Magnetic steel retainers only. No shaft, pedestal, or offset rocker arms, titanium engine components, stud girdles or mushroom lifters. Lifter diameter and confguration must match OEM passenger block. OEM fring order cannot be changed (GM: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2). All engines must be able to be used in conventional passenger car without alterations. Engine mounts cannot be removed or altered. Castings and fttings must not be changed. No machine work on outside of engine (no lightweight engine blocks). All belt driven accessories must be on front of engine. ‘Wet’ sump oiling system only. External oil pumps go with engine if claimed.
- ENGINE CLAIMING RULES: Refer to www.imca.com for claim eligibility requirements.
(A) $1,050 cash, or $100 and exchange, claim on engine, fywheel and balancing plates ($25 goes to wrecker and $25 to offcial for each engine). Claimed driver has option of accepting cash, or exchanging engines with claiming driver.
(B) Claim does not include - 1. clutch, 2. pressure plate, 3. bellhousing, 4. headers, 5. carburetor, 6. starter, 7. motor mounts, 8. oil/temp. sending units, 9. carburetor spacer, 10. fan and pulleys, 11. clutch ball, 12. clutch arm, 13. throw out bearing, 14. dip stick, 15. water pump, 16. fuel pump, rod and plate, 17. distributor, 18. plug wires, 19. water outlet and restrictor, 20. breathers.
Yeah, I understand you don’t need to tech MOTORS with a claim rule. However I would never want to be in a claimer division. Too many headaches with that deal. Lose your $5000 motor for $1050 or $100 and someone else’s junk? No thanks. I don’t think that would be very popular as a startup now. So the rich guy can have two cars. One with a super motor, ths other with junk. Get too fast and he can slow you down by robbing you, giving you junk then using your good motor when his gets claimed (or just ponying up for another high dollar motor he can afford to lose). Too many games can be played with that deal. Just put out rules and tech 'em.
I agree. I was in the pits at Citrus one night and the winner (not “our” car)–that ran like a Katouttahail pulled his motor. I was silent, but thought “I just don’t think I could do that.”
But there was good car count & close competition. Go figure.
yea I am not against the big motor class I actually have a brand new aluminum head motor still sitting on the engine test stand. I will put that in one of my mods. And when that is wore out or blown up there will be no more motors built here not worth it. I might think about a sportsman or I could build another super stock since I have the crate motor and 3 big body Monte’s sitting around and extra parts .
That’s cool. I’m glad your not “parking it” like it is said some Emod guys are gonna do. I’m sure you and Diamond Jim will enjoy the extra HP even if it is not entirely by your choice. Good luck in 2015!