Okay, but why would you be forced to purchase tires from the track at all? Could you get a better price if you were allowed to buy from anyone? There have been posts about buying tires and having them shipped in, for less than the tracks charge. I just think the racers should have the option to purchase what they want, when they want, for the best price they can find.
[QUOTE=50racer;156316]If it was not for Yoho and Desoto we would still be running for 400-600 to win and poor payouts in the Modifieds.
The money from these tracks in the last 2 years has allowed the West Coast Modifieds drivers to be able to step up their programs and be able to go any where in the state and run well and win. AKA NSS Speed Weeks and Snowball Derby. We show up in good car count numbers with great looking cars and but on a great show for the fans.
We have to buy fuel and tires from someone, why not support the tracks that are returning good payouts[/QUOTE]
I’ve followed Florida racing for a long time, and the West Coast mods have always been as good as any in the state. And Jimmy Cope has always built beautiful cars.
Yes, you have to buy fuel and tires. And you should be able to buy from anyone you want. You should be able to get a group together and buy tires and gas if you want to. But you won’t be allowed to.
[QUOTE=JC26;156312]Showtime is neck and neck with Desoto for modified payouts as the best in the state.
As far as the only 2 races that require fuel and tire purchases at the race track, fuel is only $4 more for 10 gallons of fuel at the track than it is at Steele Performance. And Jay sells tires, and you can buy them from him at any given point in time. I’m sure I speak for everyone when I say that Showtime has the best tire guy in Florida. Not to mention his tires are $3-5.cheaper than Desoto. I get your stance on trying to fight for the racer, but this topic about mandatory tire and fuel purchases is getting to be redundant. Especially when you’re spewing misinformation about a track and promoter who has the best modified car count in the state right now.[/QUOTE]
I guess the question would be, why are there ANY races that require gas and tire purchases from the track?
Any car that’s offered.
What really started me thinking about this was Yoho himself. I took the family up to Showtime for a big OWM race a while back. We were sitting in the stands by the pit exit and could hear the pit PA system. About every 10 minutes we could hear Yoho bellowing over the PA that racers needed to bring him their receipt for purchasing 10 gallons of gas or they wouldn’t be allowed on the track.
That seemed a little over the top, making everybody purchase your product or they couldn’t go on the track. Since then, i’ve seen and read about other tracks using the same tactics.
If the racers feel the current system works, then by all means go with it. If you don’t mind paying for your own purse and points fund, then don’t change a thing. But if the racers feel that the pit gate money should be their contribution, and that the tracks should quit trying to nickel and dime the racers instead of getting off their butts and finding local and national sponsors for the purse and points fund, then you might want to speak up at the next drivers meeting.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156325]What really started me thinking about this was Yoho himself. I took the family up to Showtime for a big OWM race a while back. We were sitting in the stands by the pit exit and could hear the pit PA system. About every 10 minutes we could hear Yoho bellowing over the PA that racers needed to bring him their receipt for purchasing 10 gallons of gas or they wouldn’t be allowed on the track.
That seemed a little over the top, making everybody purchase your product or they couldn’t go on the track. Since then, i’ve seen and read about other tracks using the same tactics.
If the racers feel the current system works, then by all means go with it. If you don’t mind paying for your own purse and points fund, then don’t change a thing. But if the racers feel that the pit gate money should be their contribution, and that the tracks should quit trying to nickel and dime the racers instead of getting off their butts and finding local and national sponsors for the purse and points fund, then you might want to speak up at the next drivers meeting.[/QUOTE]
The problem you’re having is that most of the stuff you’re saying, you have no clue about. You don’t even know who you heard over the PA system. 98% of the time the guy talking over the PA is the tech inspector or the backstretch flagman who helps with the line up on occasion. Other than the drivers meeting or for a big altercation, I don’t hear Yoho over the PA at all.
Which brings me to my next point, you have yet to find one OWM driver to rally around your gripes. You wanna know why? Because we actually buy the tires and the fuel and know that it’s not that big of a deal when mandatory purchases are made. The price of a tire from Jay is $127.50. So whether we buy 4 a week from him away from the track or buy 4 from him for a mandatory race at the track they are the same price. Desotos tires are a few bucks more than Jay, and like I stated before, fuel is cheaper at Steel Performance by $4 for 10 gallons for Sunoco, and Desoto sells Renegade so I have no idea where to buy it at a comparable price, but it’s 8$ a gallon at the track.
You won’t hear the OWM guys complain about Showtime or Desoto, because we get treated fair, the payouts are excellent and they take care of us. The only drivers you’re going to have side with you are Sportsman drivers. Who are coincidentally the ones who have caused this cluster f*ck of a tire situation for some modifieds who run multiple tracks.
First, i’m not having any problem at all. You’re the one that’s forced to buy track products. What’s more, you don’t mind a bit. I’m just the guy in the stands laughing about it.
I know what Yoho looks like. He was the one talking on the PA.
I haven’t found anyone to rally around my gripes. What i’m looking for is the tracks to realize what an idiotic idea it is to force mandatory gas and tire purchases by the few racers they still have left. And i think we’ve seen a little movement from a track or two. They realize that forcing racers to buy things they don’t need and/or can’t afford is just putting more race cars up on blocks every year.
I applaud you on your deep pockets, you say you don’t mind spending money on whatever the tracks force you to buy. Too bad many racers aren’t as well off or as well sponsored as you seem to be. And more classes than just the OWM guys are forced to buy tires and gas.
You should take up your tire grudge with the Sportsman guys. The tire situation is brought on by the tracks, the Sportsman guys don’t sell tires as far as i know.
As i mentioned in the above post, if the current situation suits you and your pocketbook, stick with it and God bless. And us outsiders who have no clue will just watch and shake our heads in disbelief.
[QUOTE=JC26;156327]The problem you’re having is that most of the stuff you’re saying, you have no clue about. You don’t even know who you heard over the PA system. 98% of the time the guy talking over the PA is the tech inspector or the backstretch flagman who helps with the line up on occasion. Other than the drivers meeting or for a big altercation, I don’t hear Yoho over the PA at all.
Which brings me to my next point, you have yet to find one OWM driver to rally around your gripes. You wanna know why? Because we actually buy the tires and the fuel and know that it’s not that big of a deal when mandatory purchases are made. The price of a tire from Jay is $127.50. So whether we buy 4 a week from him away from the track or buy 4 from him for a mandatory race at the track they are the same price. Desotos tires are a few bucks more than Jay, and like I stated before, fuel is cheaper at Steel Performance by $4 for 10 gallons for Sunoco, and Desoto sells Renegade so I have no idea where to buy it at a comparable price, but it’s 8$ a gallon at the track.
You won’t hear the OWM guys complain about Showtime or Desoto, because we get treated fair, the payouts are excellent and they take care of us. The only drivers you’re going to have side with you are Sportsman drivers. Who are coincidentally the ones who have caused this cluster f*ck of a tire situation for some modifieds who run multiple tracks.[/QUOTE]
You can refer to me by name, I don’t care. LOL. No need to lump my competitors in with my opinions. I don’t side with Matt as much as I think the mandatory tire and fuel purchases are a moot point because almost all of the racers are going to buy them from the tracks anyway. So on one hand the requirement is not a big deal but on the other hand it really isn’t necessary and IMO keeps drivers away that feel like they are forced to do it. We are somewhat in agreement on that topic. However I DO agree with Matt about entry fees being a bad thing. Me and Matt have a somewhat different view as to why it is bad though. IMO I think that an entry fee keeps more cars away than an extra advertised $ 50-100 to win draws. Just.take that “entry fee” out of the purse top to bottom. However, Matt is spot on that most of the tracks in this state don’t make enough of an effort to bring in more sponsorship to help support the bottom line. It seems to be an easier (and short sighted) solution to get it from the racers.
As for the tire deal, yes, I tried to lead the effort to get us off the horrible 650/450 combination that was put together for YOUR class. Long after the OWM’s had abandoned them WE (and the classes below Sportsman) were stuck with them. We did indeed ask for this R750 tire, but we never asked for you guys to be put on them too. I beleve it was Ricky Brooks who suggested these tires be used on OWM’s too. You guys spoke up and said you wanted to stay on the F53 and Desoto and Showtime sided with you, the other tracks sided with Ricky. You can’t blame the Sportsman guys for that. I really don’t know why it’s a big deal. Most of you guys pretty much stated you were going to buy 4 tires a race anyway and didn’t need longer lasting tire. Also, Desoto and Showtime pay the biggest OWM purses anyway and they stayed on the F53. In addition, all the OWM guys who have ACTUALLY TURNED LAPS on the R750 like them. If you are going to buy 4 tires a race anyway, what’s the big deal if you want to travel to NSS, or Auburndale or wherever for a big event and buy four and run. I don’t like to see any racers be forced into a situation they are not happy with and I agree it’s a crappy situation to have a different tire rule at different places, but the tire you guys like to run is being used at the two tracks where most of you guys like to run anyway. I’m sorry that’s a by-product of us getting off of the 650/450’s and onto the R750 but, make no mistake (like you OWM guys) I’m very happy to be off of the 650/450’s. We never blamed you guys when THE TRACKS decided to take you off of the crap tires and leave us on them. Don’t blame us now that the shoe is on the other foot.
[QUOTE=scottgarrity07;156329]You can refer to me by name, I don’t care. LOL. No need to lump my competitors in with my opinions. I don’t side with Matt as much as I think the mandatory tire and fuel purchases are a moot point because almost all of the racers are going to buy them from the tracks anyway. So on one hand the requirement is not a big deal but on the other hand it really isn’t necessary and IMO keeps drivers away that feel like they are forced to do it. We are somewhat in agreement on that topic. However I DO agree with Matt about entry fees being a bad thing. Me and Matt have a somewhat different view as to why it is bad though. IMO I think that an entry fee keeps more cars away than an extra advertised $ 50-100 to win draws. Just.take that “entry fee” out of the purse top to bottom. However, Matt is spot on that most of the tracks in this state don’t make enough of an effort to bring in more sponsorship to help support the bottom line. It seems to be an easier (and short sighted) solution to get it from the racers.
As for the tire deal, yes, I tried to lead the effort to get us off the horrible 650/450 combination that was put together for YOUR class. Long after the OWM’s had abandoned them WE (and the classes below Sportsman) were stuck with them. We did indeed ask for this R750 tire, but we never asked for you guys to be put on them too. I beleve it was Ricky Brooks who suggested these tires be used on OWM’s too. You guys spoke up and said you wanted to stay on the F53 and Desoto and Showtime sided with you, the other tracks sided with Ricky. You can’t blame the Sportsman guys for that. I really don’t know why it’s a big deal. Most of you guys pretty much stated you were going to buy 4 tires a race anyway and didn’t need longer lasting tire. Also, Desoto and Showtime pay the biggest OWM purses anyway and they stayed on the F53. In addition, all the OWM guys who have ACTUALLY TURNED LAPS on the R750 like them. If you are going to buy 4 tires a race anyway, what’s the big deal if you want to travel to NSS, or Auburndale or wherever for a big event and buy four and run. I don’t like to see any racers be forced into a situation they are not happy with and I agree it’s a crappy situation to have a different tire rule at different places, but the tire you guys like to run is being used at the two tracks where most of you guys like to run anyway. I’m sorry that’s a by-product of us getting off of the 650/450’s and onto the R750 but, make no mistake (like you OWM guys) I’m very happy to be off of the 650/450’s. We never blamed you guys when THE TRACKS decided to take you off of the crap tires and leave us on them. Don’t blame us now that the shoe is on the other foot.[/QUOTE]I’m not gonna arggue the entry fee, because that is what it is. Ever heard the phrase you have to spend money to make money? Well I’m sure every guy who does show up to an entry fee race and pays $50-$100 to have a shot at making $1500 to win is all a calculated risk for them. I wasn’t pointing out you specifically, because there were a few others who have chimed in on the Bronson thread. But my whole stance on it, is of Matt is going to bitch and moan about something that he doesn’t even have a stake or dime wrapped up in as far as buying fuel and tires goes, then how about he get out there and push for more sponsorship for the tracks? It’s not hurting your pockets either way, so if he’s gonna gripe, then get out there, and put advertising packages together and get sponsorships for the tracks, or just sit in the bleachers and enjoy the racing.
As far as the tires go, that was merely thrown in because I can honestly say that is a bigger problem and cost for the racers than mandatory fuel and tire purchases.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156328]First, i’m not having any problem at all. You’re the one that’s forced to buy track products. What’s more, you don’t mind a bit. I’m just the guy in the stands laughing about it.
I know what Yoho looks like. He was the one talking on the PA.
I haven’t found anyone to rally around my gripes. What i’m looking for is the tracks to realize what an idiotic idea it is to force mandatory gas and tire purchases by the few racers they still have left. And i think we’ve seen a little movement from a track or two. They realize that forcing racers to buy things they don’t need and/or can’t afford is just putting more race cars up on blocks every year.
I applaud you on your deep pockets, you say you don’t mind spending money on whatever the tracks force you to buy. Too bad many racers aren’t as well off or as well sponsored as you seem to be. And more classes than just the OWM guys are forced to buy tires and gas.
You should take up your tire grudge with the Sportsman guys. The tire situation is brought on by the tracks, the Sportsman guys don’t sell tires as far as i know.
As i mentioned in the above post, if the current situation suits you and your pocketbook, stick with it and God bless. And us outsiders who have no clue will just watch and shake our heads in disbelief.[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with deep pockets or sponsorship. I race out of my own pocket with no sponsorship and on a budget just like the majority of the racers out there. I don’t know how I can put it into perspective for you. You are talking about a very small amount of money difference that is being requested and it only happens a handful of times a year. If you had any ideas of the cost of tires and fuel, you’d see were only talking maybe $20 a race? I’m sorry, but if $100 is going to make or break you over the course of 5 races, then you don’t have any business running a modified to begin with.
[QUOTE=JC26;156330]I’m not gonna arggue the entry fee, because that is what it is. Ever heard the phrase you have to spend money to make money? Well I’m sure every guy who does show up to an entry fee race and pays $50-$100 to have a shot at making $1500 to win is all a calculated risk for them. I wasn’t pointing out you specifically, because there were a few others who have chimed in on the Bronson thread. But my whole stance on it, is of Matt is going to bitch and moan about something that he doesn’t even have a stake or dime wrapped up in as far as buying fuel and tires goes, then how about he get out there and push for more sponsorship for the tracks? It’s not hurting your pockets either way, so if he’s gonna gripe, then get out there, and put advertising packages together and get sponsorships for the tracks, or just sit in the bleachers and enjoy the racing.
As far as the tires go, that was merely thrown in because I can honestly say that is a bigger problem and cost for the racers than mandatory fuel and tire purchases.[/QUOTE]
Good post. I pretty much agree with all your points. However, don’t you agree that “No entry fee, $1400 to win, no tire and fuel requirements” would likely draw more cars than “$100 entry fee, $1500 to win, mandatory 4 tire and 10 gallon fuel purchase”? Look it at this way. If the former draws just 5 more cars there’s a better show for the fans, the track gets ALL of extra pit pass, hot dog and coke money from those 5 teams as opposed to the percentage piece of the pie from tires and fuel (that almost all of the teams are going to buy anyway). Like I said in a previous post, the PERCEPTION of what these requirements say about the track management and how you are treated as a racer seem less inviting.
All these things being said, I ALWAYS buy my tires from the track that I feel treats me well and respects me as a racer the most. Take care of those who take care of you. If my Crate motor needed racing fuel, I would (and used to) by that from my favorite track too.
[QUOTE=scottgarrity07;156332]Good post. I pretty much agree with all your points. However, don’t you agree that “No entry fee, $1400 to win, no tire and fuel requirements” would likely draw more cars than “$100 entry fee, $1500 to win, mandatory 4 tire and 10 gallon fuel purchase”? Look it at this way. If the former draws just 5 more cars there’s a better show for the fans, the track gets ALL of extra pit pass, hot dog and coke money from those 5 teams as opposed to the percentage piece of the pie from tires and fuel (that almost all of the teams are going to buy anyway). Like I said in a previous post, the PERCEPTION of what these requirements say about the track management and how you are treated as a racer seem less inviting.
All these things being said, I ALWAYS buy my tires from the track that I feel treats me well and respects me as a racer the most. Take care of those who take care of you. If my Crate motor needed racing fuel, I would (and used to) by that from my favorite track too.[/QUOTE]If it was an every week thing then I would definitely say that it needs to be addressed. However, for 4 or 5 races a year, I can’t say it’s anything worth ruffling feathers over. A prime example of that would be this years Eddie Brann Memorial. $510 worth of tires and $100 worth of fuel were a minimum and he had I think 39 cars come out and attempt to make that race.
I see your point with Showtime, he has no problem drawing OWM’s. But for a place like Bronson that has a reputation for small car counts and cut purses as a result, it would definitely help to consider the “Critter” type of no-strings approach.
You sure make a lot of noise for someone who doesn’t even have a dog in the fight!
Every person who loves racing has a dog in this fight.
slow
you really don’t know when to shutup and let it go do you.
Hey! I don’t see any reason at all for that attitude. Mini Racer has every right to comment on this thread.
That’s funny right there.
And that’s what you fail to realize with your “customer is always right” mentality, is that you really don’t have a dog in the fight. What some racers shell out for fuel and tires for one weekend, you spend on sitting in the bleachers for 2 seasons. So if its not effecting your pocket then you have no argument. The harsh reality of it is that most of the money in the purse comes from the $30 pit fee that the drivers and crew pay to get in. So if the racers keep coming on their own, then there will always be a revolving door of money to support it that doesn’t involve the fans who spend $12, and then piss and moan about things that don’t even effect their experience at the race track. (And please spare yourself from using Bronson as an example because they aren’t getting any mods even when there isn’t a mandatory purchase.)
But again, if you’re so concerned with it, put together some advertising packages and pass them out to local businesses and see of you can get them to sponsor the tracks. Put up or shut up…
[QUOTE=JC26;156404]And that’s what you fail to realize with your “customer is always right” mentality, is that you really don’t have a dog in the fight. What some racers shell out for fuel and tires for one weekend, you spend on sitting in the bleachers for 2 seasons. So if its not effecting your pocket then you have no argument. The harsh reality of it is that most of the money in the purse comes from the $30 pit fee that the drivers and crew pay to get in. So if the racers keep coming on their own, then there will always be a revolving door of money to support it that doesn’t involve the fans who spend $12, and then piss and moan about things that don’t even effect their experience at the race track. (And please spare yourself from using Bronson as an example because they aren’t getting any mods even when there isn’t a mandatory purchase.)
But again, if you’re so concerned with it, put together some advertising packages and pass them out to local businesses and see of you can get them to sponsor the tracks. Put up or shut up…[/QUOTE]
Okay, confess, you’re actually a track promoter aren’t you. The " We don’t need fans, we’ll just make the purse off of the back gate ( injector ) idea gives it away.
Here we fans always thought our ticket purchases and concession purchases helped out. Now we find out that the OWMs at Showtime have their own revolving door of money and don’t need the fans, at least not the fans who think the show could be better.
Just promise the world that you will never, never, never work at any job at a race track that involves marketing. The track couldn’t survive your unique brand of thinking.