[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156405]Okay, confess, you’re actually a track promoter aren’t you. The " We don’t need fans, we’ll just make the purse off of the back gate ( injector ) idea gives it away.
Here we fans always thought our ticket purchases and concession purchases helped out. Now we find out that the OWMs at Showtime have their own revolving door of money and don’t need the fans, at least not the fans who think the show could be better.
Just promise the world that you will never, never, never work at any job at a race track that involves marketing. The track couldn’t survive your unique brand of thinking.[/QUOTE]
I’m all for having fans. But it’s the armchair quarterback fans like yourself that want to do absolutely everything to complain and absolutely nothing to make it better. But again, the harsh reality is, 100 cars in the pits with an average of 4 people per car at $30 per head. $12,000…400 people in the bleachers at $12 a head $4800…Now please, tell me which side is more lucrative. The side that buys tires, fuel and keeps coming back to be the show, or the side that incessantly bitches about what the other side of the fence has to do?
You keep saying the competition could be better, but tire purchases and fuel have Jack shit to do with that. The same 10 guys who are racing and beating and banging for the win are the same guys who buy 4 tires each week regardless of what the track says. So what if you get 3 more cars to fill the field and ride around in the back. Regardless of what the track says the guys who are going to be putting on the show and racing up front already have 4 tires.
You are full of wild opinions and haven’t spent a DIME on anything to do with an actual race car. You haven’t got a clue as to what it takes to make it to the track each week, and you re affirm this with every ignorant idea/post that you make.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156405]Okay, confess, you’re actually a track promoter aren’t you. The " We don’t need fans, we’ll just make the purse off of the back gate ( injector ) idea gives it away.
Here we fans always thought our ticket purchases and concession purchases helped out. Now we find out that the OWMs at Showtime have their own revolving door of money and don’t need the fans, at least not the fans who think the show could be better.
Just promise the world that you will never, never, never work at any job at a race track that involves marketing. The track couldn’t survive your unique brand of thinking.[/QUOTE]
Matt, the pit gate ALWAYS makes more than the stands. $30 per head is a hell of a lot better than $10-13 per person. I usually bring 5-6 people with me per night in the pits…that’s $180. Your math skills are just as bad as your ideas on how to run a race track. You should really stick to your iRacing game and leave the real racing to the racers.
I like the comparison to front and back gate pricing. Now, how do we get it back like it used to be. With 100 quality cars in the pits to put on a show…the stands should be full, balancing those numbers out. That is a win for everyone.
It’s strange how cost has become such an issue. When i stopped racing parts were getting more expensive but we wanted aftermarket shocks and other components. There was no reason to complain about tire and fuel cost. now it is an issue to many folks.
I never asked prior to a race what it cost. i just called the track to see if they were racing.
Benny, I do think cost has a lot to do with car counts. When I prepared my first car for Putnam County Speedway back in 1980, I used leftover Gulf Crown tires from Dad’s gas station, the seat was out of a Chevelle, and I made my own air cleaner housing. Now, to compete, you have to buy super expensive off the shelf stuff. Like it or not, this is hobby racing, and when expenses get too high you drop the hobby. I know it affects how and when I race. Having said that, I am on the track’s side when it comes to tires and fuel. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to turn a profit owning a small racetrack.
[QUOTE=JC26;156408]I’m all for having fans. But it’s the armchair quarterback fans like yourself that want to do absolutely everything to complain and absolutely nothing to make it better. But again, the harsh reality is, 100 cars in the pits with an average of 4 people per car at $30 per head. $12,000…400 people in the bleachers at $12 a head $4800…Now please, tell me which side is more lucrative. The side that buys tires, fuel and keeps coming back to be the show, or the side that incessantly bitches about what the other side of the fence has to do?
You keep saying the competition could be better, but tire purchases and fuel have Jack shit to do with that. The same 10 guys who are racing and beating and banging for the win are the same guys who buy 4 tires each week regardless of what the track says. So what if you get 3 more cars to fill the field and ride around in the back. Regardless of what the track says the guys who are going to be putting on the show and racing up front already have 4 tires.[/QUOTE]
On a good night, the fan side is far more lucrative. And the track owners don’t have to listen to OWM racers whining about Sportsman drivers changing the tire rules. But while i appreciate your dexterity in switching the focus of this thread, let’s head back toward the original idea. Front or back injector revenue isn’t the topic. Forcing the racers to buy only track supplied products is the point. Racers who aren’t as well financed as you appear to be.
If Citrus decides to force a 2 table lamp minimum purchase each night for their new Aarons sponsor, is that okay too because you gotta buy table lamps from somebody?
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156426]On a good night, the fan side is far more lucrative. And the track owners don’t have to listen to OWM racers whining about Sportsman drivers changing the tire rules. But while i appreciate your dexterity in switching the focus of this thread, let’s head back toward the original idea. Front or back injector revenue isn’t the topic. Forcing the racers to buy only track supplied products is the point. Racers who aren’t as well financed as you appear to be.
If Citrus decides to force a 2 table lamp minimum purchase each night for their new Aarons sponsor, is that okay too because you gotta buy table lamps from somebody?[/QUOTE]Even on a great night, grandstand sales don’t even scratch the surface of the pits because it cost %50 more just to get in the pits. The fact that you can compare table lamps pretty much solidifies your ignorance on the topic. Everyone has explained why it’s done, whether it’s for points funds, impound races or to make sure people don’t just start and park for a big money race that pays well just to take the green. You just choose to live in your own little bubble and not accept or understand why it’s done, because you’re too dense to see past your own nose.
Buy me some tires for the mandatory 4 tire purchase in the 100 lap race at Showtime in April. Then you are entitled to bitch and moan. Until then, shut the hell up.
It’s strange how cost has become such an issue. When i stopped racing parts were getting more expensive but we wanted aftermarket shocks and other components. There was no reason to complain about tire and fuel cost. now it is an issue to many folks.
I never asked prior to a race what it cost. i just called the track to see if they were racing.[/QUOTE]
Its like just about everthing else,costs have doubled or tripled in the last 15-20 years,yet peoples pay has for the most part stayed the same.
Thanks to Auburndale for no fees or purchase requirements.
Thx to Yoho for filling the pits and has been stated “taking care of the racers”.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, as they say…
It seems simple enough:
Call ahead. Determine if the expense to payout ratio is cost effective. If so, go. If not, go to another venue, or stay at the house.
Same as choosing parts/builder/etc for the next motor, or which class to run.
Dickie Anderson built a beautiful modified, and I hope he is getting it back together. I will bet he built a modified because although expensive, it is cheaper than a late model.
It really is all fairly simple and self levelling. The complicated part comes in when trying to get/expecting others to modify (pun intended) their behavior and do it “your way”.
Disclaimer–No am not an owner and yes, am “Cluster’s” friend.
[QUOTE=JC26;156428]Even on a great night, grandstand sales don’t even scratch the surface of the pits because it cost %50 more just to get in the pits. The fact that you can compare table lamps pretty much solidifies your ignorance on the topic. Everyone has explained why it’s done, whether it’s for points funds, impound races or to make sure people don’t just start and park for a big money race that pays well just to take the green. You just choose to live in your own little bubble and not accept or understand why it’s done, because you’re too dense to see past your own nose.
Buy me some tires for the mandatory 4 tire purchase in the 100 lap race at Showtime in April. Then you are entitled to bitch and moan. Until then, shut the hell up.[/QUOTE]
You think the seating capacity of a track might have something to do with calculating your front/back injector model? Not to mention the importance of the race? You should mention to Yoho and Cope that they’re wasting time worrying about getting fans in the stands. All they need is the back gate. We’ll be able to hear the laughter for miles.
I’m entitled to bitch and moan any time i please. You’d be the last on the list of any racer i’d buy tires for. With your attitude toward racing, i’d bet you’re last on the list of most people willing to sponsor racers. Most sponsors are much more interested in the fans than the racers.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156431]You think the seating capacity of a track might have something to do with calculating your front/back injector model? Not to mention the importance of the race? You should mention to Yoho and Cope that they’re wasting time worrying about getting fans in the stands. All they need is the back gate. We’ll be able to hear the laughter for miles.
I’m entitled to bitch and moan any time i please. You’d be the last on the list of any racer i’d buy tires for. With your attitude toward racing, i’d bet you’re last on the list of most people willing to sponsor racers. Most sponsors are much more interested in the fans than the racers.[/QUOTE]
There’s no attitude or mentality towards racing. There’s a reality of what is and what isn’t. Yeah, I’d love to see the grandstands at max capacity with 1000+ people in them, but the reality is, that’s not the case for weekly shows. Why do you think over the last 15-20 years the cost of the pit gate has gone up? It’s because the racers are the only constant in the equation. You can race without fans, but you can’t race without racers. Are fans nice to have there? Absolutely. Does it help the track? Absolutely. But to think that the race track would instantly shut down without fans is assinine. Hell, Auburndale for a stretch was lucky to have 50 asses sitting in the bleachers. But you know what? They stayed open because the racers were the one who came out. Fans make it easier for sponsors to want to shell out money, but make no mistake. People that have the money to race will still do it with or without sponsorship. That’s the reality you need to swallow.
I am often reminded by my grandfather’s pictures of times when he would race at Phillips field or Golden Gate and the grandstands there were slap full, as well as the pits. That would be great to see that again, but it probably never will. Even at the highest level of racing, NASCAR is lucky to full half the bleachers at some tracks.
But we also live in a different time and age where people have tons more options for entertainment than they did back then.
As a road racer, it has always been like that. I see the day when to race at local short tracks, you will pay an entry fee every time you race. As JC26 said, there are way more entertainment options than there were 25-30 years ago.
I have no doubt that people with money will continue to race. People with lot’s of money. Because you’re gonna have a very hard time convincing a company to sponsor your race car when there are no fans to advertise their products to.
The apocalypse you describe already exists. It’s called drag racing, and as Jacko mentioned, road racing. The purse and the points fund is almost entirely on the back of the entrants.
Now you racers are paying part of the purse and ALL of the points fund already at Showtime. But when you convince Yoho to get rid of the grandstands you’re going to up the kitty considerably. That’s why drag racers pay $100 for a tech card, plus pit admission. There is never really a crowd of spectators at a weekly drag race. So the racers pay for the whole show themselves and split the back injector money up among themselves. That’s why drag racing only pays back about 6-8 cars. Every one further back goes home several hundred dollars lighter.
Does that sound like a winning strategy for oval track racing? When that idea is put in place, the entire field of race cars will consist of you and 5 of your wealthy racer friends because every one else will park their cars.
But rather than throwing ideas around, lets find out for real. Call Yoho and Cope this afternoon, tell them you and the other OWMs are prepared to fund the racing on your own, no fans needed. You’ll absorb the lost revenue from the front injector. You’ll happily continue to pay your own points fund, buy the products the track want’s you to buy, and you’ll guarantee a full field of OWMs. Fans will be allowed to show up of course, they just won’t be charged anything.
Lets see how well this idea works.
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;156438]But rather than throwing ideas around, lets find out for real. Call Yoho and Cope this afternoon, tell them you and the other OWMs are prepared to fund the racing on your own, no fans needed. You’ll absorb the lost revenue from the front injector. You’ll happily continue to pay your own points fund, buy the products the track want’s you to buy, and you’ll guarantee a full field of OWMs. Fans will be allowed to show up of course, they just won’t be charged anything.
Lets see how well this idea works.[/QUOTE]
It does work. We get 200+ cars at lots of SCCA weekends, and in HSR, we get 100 or more. No purse, us racers pay for everything.