[QUOTE=OldSchool+;158835]Huh.
Maybe that is why the crowds are bigger, but the fields…?
Again, I believe they are just more passionate up there. More history. Mo money.
And they got “Yankee Phil”, but is he a dandy?[/QUOTE]
I am indeed one dandy mothertrucker! lol
Florida drivers in general are more mature age wise also. There are a lot more punk ass silver spoon kids up here where mommy and daddy pay the bill while the kid plays his xbox.
As much as I love Dale Earnhardt, you can thank him for making people think that kind of racing is how racing should be.
That said, you apparently have not watched a limited sportsman or Late Model race up here in many years.
When it comes to SK… There is a simple solution to chill them out… Mandate an .049 wall thickness on the nerf tubing instead of the .095 they run now. THAT will fix things real fast.
I thing the tire has the most impact on the car count.
I was talking about the weekly racing car count. There special show car count is great. Those cars are coming from all over the state. The problem is that the local cars aren’t here.
VSC is in the same market and has a great local car count 400% greater?
Something is bad wrong. In 2007 there were car counts over 100 read the wall . we posted the car count on the pit office wall every time it was over 100 Im sure they painted over that.
don62
don62
[QUOTE=Don Nerone;158860]I thing the tire has the most impact on the car count.
I was talking about the weekly racing car count. There special show car count is great. Those cars are coming from all over the state. The problem is that the local cars aren’t here.
VSC is in the same market and has a great local car count 400% greater?
Something is bad wrong. In 2007 there were car counts over 100 read the wall . we posted the car count on the pit office wall every time it was over 100 Im sure they painted over that.
don62
don62[/QUOTE]
I think 2008 is what happened to the 2007 car counts. The deepest recession since the Great Depression certainly took its toll on car counts. Typically things like advertising are the first things cut from businesses looking to cut corners. Bye-bye race sponsorship. Now dirt racing, for some reason rebounded quicker but there are many factors hurting local asphalt car counts. The tire deal definitely helped Sportsman and Super Stock guys. The other classes need changes to help affordability. I’m not sure Super Lates and Pro Lates are viable as weekly race cars anymore. Even if you run 25 laps, those cars need tires every week. Weekly purses just don’t sustain that. OWM motor costs are out of control. On the West Coast the purses can sustain that. At NSS, not so much. The change in tires helps for the NSS guys, just not enough to draw new cars though. Changing the motor rules will piss off the current front runners so I’m not sure what will help. It’s not as easy a fix as the tires was for the Sportsman guys. The Modified Mini class always confounded me. 4cyl classes are supposed to be affordable. Tube frame mini Late Models are not. Especially when you are running for a lower division type purse. I wish there was an easy fix. What it will take is for drivers in these classes to say “What is good for my class’s prosperity”, not just “what is good for me”. I think we did that with Sportsman and it’s starting to work. The answers can only come from the people who race those particular cars. They are the one’s who know what they need.
Car counts mean nothing if there are no fans in the stands. I have been to a lot of southern short track races and other than the snowball derby, I have not seen a crowd as big or intense as Stafford up here. Even when New Smyrna gets the cars they still don’t get the fans. As for the beating and banging, unfortunately that is what draws a crowd. You can’t hear the commentary at a short track so if you are not seeing beating and banging you are watching cars go around in circles. To say it’s passing and two wide racing that draws a crowd is just not realistic because there is not enough of it. The people around New Smyrna just aren’t into it, maybe the track ruined it a while ago and there’s no repairing it. At Stafford the fans are wearing the drivers shirts, there are rivalries, people booing, cheering, etc. I am embarrassed when I bring my friends to watch me at New Smyrna, they think it’s a joke because all these guys are driving their asses off and spending all this money to race for a win in front of fifty people. I consider it my home track so I wish it would change.
Phil I’m not sure what you are referring to as far as the NE Mod rules package, I ran my car at NSS the exact way it is set up for the WMT. I think what destroyed it is lack of car count due to cost. Once a few guys didn’t go, the rest said well its not that big of a deal, I guess we don’t need to go. Just my opinion, hopefully it will get better.
Hey Scott
What would you know about racing anyways, I dont think that I have seen you try to race with more then 7 cars at one time. If you go to any place other then DSS ,you just might get to race with a few cars that do RUB. If there are 20 cars and 25 laps, Thats not much time, unless you just came to a rolling car show. WE are here to race.We are here to put on a show.We are here to give the fans what they came for. Maybe thats why you show 5 or 6 times a year, and then cry because someone gave you a bump. GET WITH THE SHOW! Th:anim_pound:is is a race, not a car show.
XRacer:
>>I am a fan.
>>Also enjoy Mr. Garrity’s company & perspective.
>I like close racing, such as you mention, and if it is close, sooner or later someone needs new sheetmetal and/or a front clip. It is okay with me, I go home and go to bed.
>BUT, in this day of decreasing car count (making the show suck for the fans that you mention), from a racer’s perspective, who wants to pay for torn up stuff? And if they cannot, one less car on the track.
A straightforward question with no offense meant: In your case, is it your money per se?
Because in Scott’s, am fairly certain it is his.
Not saying I don’t understand, even support, your position. Just saying there are a field of cars on the track, with a different story behind each car. However, the number of cars is not what it once was. With all the adversity in 2015, am thinking we should pull together, as opposed to against each other.
[QUOTE=MJM10;158869]Car counts mean nothing if there are no fans in the stands. I have been to a lot of southern short track races and other than the snowball derby, I have not seen a crowd as big or intense as Stafford up here. Even when New Smyrna gets the cars they still don’t get the fans. As for the beating and banging, unfortunately that is what draws a crowd. You can’t hear the commentary at a short track so if you are not seeing beating and banging you are watching cars go around in circles. To say it’s passing and two wide racing that draws a crowd is just not realistic because there is not enough of it. The people around New Smyrna just aren’t into it, maybe the track ruined it a while ago and there’s no repairing it. At Stafford the fans are wearing the drivers shirts, there are rivalries, people booing, cheering, etc. I am embarrassed when I bring my friends to watch me at New Smyrna, they think it’s a joke because all these guys are driving their asses off and spending all this money to race for a win in front of fifty people. I consider it my home track so I wish it would change.
Phil I’m not sure what you are referring to as far as the NE Mod rules package, I ran my car at NSS the exact way it is set up for the WMT. I think what destroyed it is lack of car count due to cost. Once a few guys didn’t go, the rest said well its not that big of a deal, I guess we don’t need to go. Just my opinion, hopefully it will get better.[/QUOTE]
Hey Matt, I think the car counts being low are the direct cause of there being low attendance. As previously noted, the VSP dirt track across town has big car counts and big crowds. While I agree that “rubbin is racin” and that there needs to be excitement to entertain, knocking a guy into the third groove because you don’t have the skill or patience to execute a clean pass is uncalled for. Most fans come for the excitement of close racing but I guess there are some that come for the wrecks and fights. That being said Stafford is rougher racing than you find in FL (raced there for 8 years) but Thompson is much cleaner (except for some SK races) and still packs them in.
I totally agree with you about the diminished Tour Mod count at the World Series. After 2008 when the economy tanked and some Tour guys decided not to come the event lost some of it’s lustre in Mod racing circles. It was always a huge financial sacrifice to make the trip from the Northeast. I guess a lot of guys just don’t see the prestige in it anymore. Sad.
I was actually surprised the crowd was so big a New Smyrna last Saturday. Considering what was on the card, I thought if was a nice crowd and no one left early!
There were a number of teams here last year (2014) that refused to go down or make the trip because of the cylinder head and weight rules. The guys I talked to and things I saw on FB just said NSS was not making it worth their while because of the little changes here and there that they had to make. It all adds up. They need to stop trying to sanction the cars as tight as they do. You have ROC mods, WMT mods, MRS mods here and they all have little differences yet all seem to run competitively on the Tri Track series we run here without changes. Let them run as an Open Tour Type Modified divisions like they do up here. Tech by the series rule book that your car originates from. If you are a WMT car, run WMT rules, if you are MRS car, run by MRS rules. It’s really simple. The cars are close enough here that it doesn’t make a huge performance difference and when guys start having to spend money to change their cars for a special event like the World Series, it cuts into their budget to allow them to make the trip. Get what I mean? Hell, I would even allow the SK cars a weight break or some left side weight and a 4bbl to let them run too.
That’s good info, Phil. Maybe give Kim Brown a call and explain this stuff to her. NSS management is about the most open minded in Florida right now and always receptive to intelligent ideas for ways to improve things. I would love to see full fields of Tour Mods at NSS again.
I’ll send her an email Monday. I’m just an observer. I think she would be more open to hearing it direct from those specific teams, but I’ll give it a shot. I am on my way to pick up steel and head to the shop to get my car ready to drop in the engine and paint the body this weekend.
[QUOTE=MJM10;158869]Car counts mean nothing if there are no fans in the stands. I have been to a lot of southern short track races and other than the snowball derby, I have not seen a crowd as big or intense as Stafford up here. Even when New Smyrna gets the cars they still don’t get the fans. As for the beating and banging, unfortunately that is what draws a crowd. You can’t hear the commentary at a short track so if you are not seeing beating and banging you are watching cars go around in circles. To say it’s passing and two wide racing that draws a crowd is just not realistic because there is not enough of it. The people around New Smyrna just aren’t into it, maybe the track ruined it a while ago and there’s no repairing it. At Stafford the fans are wearing the drivers shirts, there are rivalries, people booing, cheering, etc. I am embarrassed when I bring my friends to watch me at New Smyrna, they think it’s a joke because all these guys are driving their asses off and spending all this money to race for a win in front of fifty people. I consider it my home track so I wish it would change.
Phil I’m not sure what you are referring to as far as the NE Mod rules package, I ran my car at NSS the exact way it is set up for the WMT. I think what destroyed it is lack of car count due to cost. Once a few guys didn’t go, the rest said well its not that big of a deal, I guess we don’t need to go. Just my opinion, hopefully it will get better.[/QUOTE]
You will never have crowds if you don’t give them something to watch that makes them feel they got their monies worth. And you won’t have something for the fans to watch if you don’t pay enough to attract quality race cars.
You’re probably right about NSS ruining things years ago. It’s tough to dig yourself out of a hole in the entertainment business. Fans and racers have a bad experience a few times, and they don’t come back.
I think some tracks, like NSS, have just decided that they’re going to accept things as they are and just limp along. And nascar has done the same, they just remove huge numbers of grandstand seats and move on.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;158876]XRacer:
>>I am a fan.
>>Also enjoy Mr. Garrity’s company & perspective.
>I like close racing, such as you mention, and if it is close, sooner or later someone needs new sheetmetal and/or a front clip. It is okay with me, I go home and go to bed.
>BUT, in this day of decreasing car count (making the show suck for the fans that you mention), from a racer’s perspective, who wants to pay for torn up stuff? And if they cannot, one less car on the track.
A straightforward question with no offense meant: In your case, is it your money per se?
Because in Scott’s, am fairly certain it is his.
Not saying I don’t understand, even support, your position. Just saying there are a field of cars on the track, with a different story behind each car. However, the number of cars is not what it once was. With all the adversity in 2015, am thinking we should pull together, as opposed to against each other.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the support Old School, but it’s no skin off my back. Xracer has an ax to grind with me because I don’t care for his Sugar Daddy Jim Daley. A little entertaining history lesson: A few years back I was racing at Citrus and a portly gentleman with a thick New Hampshire accent introduced himself as Jim Daley. Well at that time he owned like three Sportsman cars. I chatted with him and even lent him my welder. Out on the track it was funny. His cars weren’t very fast and took turns beating the crap out of each other (but laying off of the other cars). Well I didn’t see much of him the rest of the year but soon he had more cars and they got the reputation for running over everyone and always failing tech. It was said that he didn’t care about being DQ’d, just wanted to see his cars run up front. The next year (I think 2012) I had decided (like this year) to run Desoto for points. Well, here comes Jim Daley and his travelling circus with like 5 cars now. At this point he was putting local guys in his cars who were running over people because they didn’t have to pay for the damage and Jim was OK with it. The first night at Desoto I worked one of his drivers for a few laps and finally made a clean pass on him. He proceeded to turn left on the straight and tear my right side all to hell. In tech after the race they kept sending his cars to the shed and one by one they were all bounced. That night I met Mike Soukop who was driving one of Jim’s cars. He came over, introduced himself and apologized for being associated with that mess. He said what they were doing wasn’t his style and that he was embarrassed. Mike is a class act. Well the next week Daley seduced Desoto’s old owner John Sappriacone into going to a no rules Outlaw Sportsman concept because Jim had 5 cars and John’s car count was not good, to put it mildly. The change failed miserably. Nobody went. Soon Daley went back to NH and left John holding the bag with the division killed. Desoto closed shortly after. Fast forward to the Governor’s Cup Sportsman race this past November and once again I was run over by one of Daley’s idiots. This time was less excusable since my motor was laying down and we were a half a lap behind the field. This moron could not figure out how to get around my dying car with the whole racetrack to use, so he turned me into the frontstretch wall and caused a ton of damage. I guess Xracer thinks I was supposed to be ok with that. The reason is because Jim Daley is so far down his throat that he can’t think straight. When you sell your soul for a free ride it clouds your judgment. I mean look how he used my quote stating how I preferred the cleaner racing (at all tracks) in FL as a springboard to attack me as if I was complaining. He’s definitely mentally impaired. You can’t get mad at the handicapped. I just feel sorry for him. The good news is that Daley has hired a guy named Gadget to work on his fleet. Gadget is a good guy who knows his s%*t and has been steering Daley down the right path of making his cars legal, fast and having his drivers clean up their act (except for the occasional non-malicious brain fart). It’s now a good thing since Daley brings a bunch of cars to NSS every Sportsman race AND they are legal. See, a happy ending to the story!
Scott, Thanks for sharing “the rest of the story”…
I actually agree with XRacer.
I think you should spend more of your money (not mine) on a brand new car and then put my name over the door of the one you have.
It will be like “ben hur”…
Actually, am glad they are getting their act together.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;158892]Scott, Thanks for sharing “the rest of the story”…
I actually agree with XRacer.
I think you should spend more of your money (not mine) on a brand new car and then put my name over the door of the one you have.
It will be like “ben hur”…
Actually, am glad they are getting their act together.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, OS. Ain’t gonna happen. Lol. Get in touch with Jim Daley, though. He has shown he will put just about anybody in one of his cars.
In all seriousness, I’m glad their getting their act together too. Him fielding that many cars is great for the class. I think Jim is finding more success being a “go along, get along” kind of team owner. You know, as opposed to taking the Yankee/Carpetbagger “You all need to do it like we do it up nawth!” approach.
“He has shown he will put just about anybody in one of his cars.”--Scott
Er thanks. I think.
The idea was to point out the absurdity, of course…
Hey Scott
[QUOTE=scottgarrity07;158890]Thanks for the support Old School, but it’s no skin off my back. Xracer has an ax to grind with me because I don’t care for his Sugar Daddy Jim Daley. A little entertaining history lesson: A few years back I was racing at Citrus and a portly gentleman with a thick New Hampshire accent introduced himself as Jim Daley. Well at that time he owned like three Sportsman cars. I chatted with him and even lent him my welder. Out on the track it was funny. His cars weren’t very fast and took turns beating the crap out of each other (but laying off of the other cars). Well I didn’t see much of him the rest of the year but soon he had more cars and they got the reputation for running over everyone and always failing tech. It was said that he didn’t care about being DQ’d, just wanted to see his cars run up front. The next year (I think 2012) I had decided (like this year) to run Desoto for points. Well, here comes Jim Daley and his travelling circus with like 5 cars now. At this point he was putting local guys in his cars who were running over people because they didn’t have to pay for the damage and Jim was OK with it. The first night at Desoto I worked one of his drivers for a few laps and finally made a clean pass on him. He proceeded to turn left on the straight and tear my right side all to hell. In tech after the race they kept sending his cars to the shed and one by one they were all bounced. That night I met Mike Soukop who was driving one of Jim’s cars. He came over, introduced himself and apologized for being associated with that mess. He said what they were doing wasn’t his style and that he was embarrassed. Mike is a class act. Well the next week Daley seduced Desoto’s old owner John Sappriacone into going to a no rules Outlaw Sportsman concept because Jim had 5 cars and John’s car count was not good, to put it mildly. The change failed miserably. Nobody went. Soon Daley went back to NH and left John holding the bag with the division killed. Desoto closed shortly after. Fast forward to the Governor’s Cup Sportsman race this past November and once again I was run over by one of Daley’s idiots. This time was less excusable since my motor was laying down and we were a half a lap behind the field. This moron could not figure out how to get around my dying car with the whole racetrack to use, so he turned me into the frontstretch wall and caused a ton of damage. I guess Xracer thinks I was supposed to be ok with that. The reason is because Jim Daley is so far down his throat that he can’t think straight. When you sell your soul for a free ride it clouds your judgment. I mean look how he used my quote stating how I preferred the cleaner racing (at all tracks) in FL as a springboard to attack me as if I was complaining. He’s definitely mentally impaired. You can’t get mad at the handicapped. I just feel sorry for him. The good news is that Daley has hired a guy named Gadget to work on his fleet. Gadget is a good guy who knows his s%*t and has been steering Daley down the right path of making his cars legal, fast and having his drivers clean up their act (except for the occasional non-malicious brain fart). It’s now a good thing since Daley brings a bunch of cars to NSS every Sportsman race AND they are legal. See, a happy ending to the story![/QUOTE]Hey Scott, Its me again. Thanks for understanding that this is all in fun. I havent got you going in sometime now. Had to do it, just to see if it still worked. Hope all is going well for you down south. Are you going to try NSS 50 lap on the 16th? Come on out on the 16th, you can see what its like to run with a full field of cars. You might ever have some fun. No hard feeling on my end,you know that I have never said anything bad about you so why would you write things like you did about me:ernaehrung004:Do I need to buy the Beer this week?
Damn you Xracer! You got me! I think you owe me a beer for that one! Everybody pushing my buttons this week. Wait, what did I say bad about you? Lol. Things are going ok at Desoto. Had some fuel delivery issues the first couple of races that bit us hard. Thought we had it licked last time. Was solidly 3rd in the feature (even tho real loose) until the yellow came out and the carb took a s#%t on the restart. Carb just came back from Bo Laws and should be sporty. Also gonna try some changes to the set up. Looking forward to the next race there . I wanted to do all the 50’s at NSS but every one conflicts with Desoto except the May 16th race. Unfortunately, I don’t see the logic of changing my car for just one race there so I probably won’t be racing at NSS this year, sadly. (Almost) Always a good time when we go over there. Lol. I will be milling around be pits at NSS this Saturday though. Payouts are great at Desoto. Hopefully we can start drawing more than the 10 cars we have been getting so we can do some rubbin’! Cheers!
Handicapped…
[QUOTE=scottgarrity07;158909]Damn you Xracer! You got me! I think you owe me a beer for that one! Everybody pushing my buttons this week. Wait, what did I say bad about you? Lol. Things are going ok at Desoto. Had some fuel delivery issues the first couple of races that bit us hard. Thought we had it licked last time. Was solidly 3rd in the feature (even tho real loose) until the yellow came out and the carb took a s#%t on the restart. Carb just came back from Bo Laws and should be sporty. Also gonna try some changes to the set up. Looking forward to the next race there . I wanted to do all the 50’s at NSS but every one conflicts with Desoto except the May 16th race. Unfortunately, I don’t see the logic of changing my car for just one race there so I probably won’t be racing at NSS this year, sadly. (Almost) Always a good time when we go over there. Lol. I will be milling around be pits at NSS this Saturday though. Payouts are great at Desoto. Hopefully we can start drawing more than the 10 cars we have been getting so we can do some rubbin’! Cheers! [/QUOTE] You are right, I am Handicapped, or you could just say Definitly Mentally Impaired. I have been in and out of racing my whole life. And still cant stay home on Sat,nites:ohmy: