Posted under FUPS Sportsman Series
May use tubular upper A - Frames any length. Non Adjustable.
Surely this doesnt mean you can’t have them slotted for caster adjustment. So would camber shims be considered “adjustable”?
It just means no adjustable ball joints
2 questions
- What is the total cubic inch displacement allowed for the engine. The rulebook is 350 max for a Chevy. If you bore it any at all you have more than 350 cubic inches.
- Is there a reason a crate engine can’t run a double roller timing chain? I thought most tracks allowed that change to the engine for better durability.
Have to say I dont like alot of the rules, clutch, distributor, stock bore, why on gods green earth would you have a “any lift” hydrolic camshaft, you know that would be the weakest link of the motor. And the stock clutch is retarded, your allowing 3 link suspension, with trac bars, quickchange rearends, 2 speed richmond trannys, but you have to run a STOCK Clutch… Makes no sense.
I would like to see what goes down after the first race, stock style ball joints. Who runs that stuff, haven’t seen those on a sportsman in ten years or so everyone runs Howe low friction or the allstar with removable pin. And what about all the new cars that are being bulit,old late models with limited clips, I was told that the crossmember had to be stock; so I guess all those cars are out too. Bill it says that you can run your 7.25 just add 100 pounds, I think its worth it, just barely but worth it. Hopefully this will save saturday night racing in Fl but I doubt it, better payout would help but what do I know, see you at the races. Ted
Ted I don’t think its worth it running a 7 .5 clutch, first 100lbs is alot, and also losing 1% left side is huge. I hope the series takes off, but some of the rules are way outdated.
I am going to try to run with the series, but it’s going to be difficult.
The rules suggests that they are trying to keep the sportsman car from being high dollar. I agree that some of the rules are out there, especially if the part(s) is going to help with durability. Isn’t that making the car last longer? Which in turn saves money?
Next is the tire purchase requirement. That is going to hurt a lot of people who race on a budget. The first race (beginning of the season) I will have to buy four tires. But I set my car up so I can run those same tires for 3-4 races. If the races are 50 laps, than a set of 4 will last me 2 races. It is going to kill my budget to buy 2 tires EVERY race. I am not going to throw money away by buying tires to run every race. I am sure that there are other sportsman cars that will have to do the same thing. The sportsman class is meant to be a budget class.
Overall, I am proud that someone has picked up a sportsman series to try and save the class. But, I am afraid that some of the cars are not going to show just because they can’t afford your rules.
They aren’t saying you have to buy tires according to the rule, they are saying that is the max you can buy.
Patrick Thomas 25
Tire hardness
[QUOTE=Patrick Thomas 25;117814]They aren’t saying you have to buy tires according to the rule, they are saying that is the max you can buy.
Patrick Thomas 25[/QUOTE]
I tried to find the 650 and 459 on Hoosiers site but can’t find those numbers, how hard are they and how many nights do you think you can run competitively on one set of tires. What would really help the racer is a hard tire that would last 5 to 6 weeks. Can’t remember the # but like a 970 or 980 years ago and we could run 5 or 6 weeks ( fast dash, heat, 30 lap feature) and not lose a 2/10 a second. The purse is good if you don’t have to buy two tires every week to be competitive. If you have to spend 200, 250 dollars every week then they should raise the purse with all the money they make on selling tires. Just my opinion.
The Hoosier tires are wicked fast for 30 laps then drop off Bad… You cant run the rights more than 2 weeks if your lucky. Most guys will buy new rights every race if not all four… You leave the decision to the racer to buy tires or not, and most will just to be competative. Every track in the state runs soft Hoosier tires, I understand that the tracks need to make money,but there isnt a easy easy fix… If they go to hard compound then they need to make somewhere else. Such as higher pit passes, entry fees ect. Pick your poison…
Bill that is why Fla. racing is slowly dying, all the promotors want to be tire sales man and make their money off of the racer, rather than the fans in the stands. I guess you guys don’t see it like I do, but make it cheaper for the racer and more guys can run competatively which means more pit passes sold and with full fields of cars the fans will come back to see real racing, not 8, 10 or 12 cars for a feature. Really think about it for the net profit made in selling tires, if you get 3 or more teams showing up with a few crew members the promotor will make more money than selling the tires. Bill you been racing a long time now, think how many cars used to be in each class, now it is just getting to expensive, ( pit pass $30, buy fuel at track $?, pay for pit slab $?buy tires everyweek $$$?,$3 hot dogs, it seems like it never ends)fewer cars on the track means less people in the stands, tracks slowly closing up
Look at how uch Gas Milk Coffee Lumber and everything has gone up. The tracks havent gone up near as much as the dollar has gone down.
Its tough fo all the tracks north or south. The prices are not cheper in the north many tracks are closing north and south. Its the lack of jobs in the middle class that hurt racing.
Fans and drivers dont have the funds that they did and the sponsors are not going to help as long as the econmy is failing.
No jerry i cant spell…LOL
Don62
[QUOTE=Don Nerone;117825]Look at how uch Gas Milk Coffee Lumber and everything has gone up. The tracks havent gone up near as much as the dollar has gone down.
Its tough fo all the tracks north or south. The prices are not cheper in the north many tracks are closing north and south. Its the lack of jobs in the middle class that hurt racing.
Fans and drivers dont have the funds that they did and the sponsors are not going to help as long as the econmy is failing.
No jerry i cant spell…LOL
Don62[/QUOTE]
Don so you are saying being the economy is bad, the middle class guy doesn’t have the money he once had, you think it is a good idea for track owners and promotors to join in , get every penny they can out of that working or non-working middle class racer until he just has to put it on jack stands. I guess I’m just to thick to understand this racing mine set, but being stuborn, I still think my way would be better. Just my 2 cents
“bad economy” is just a cheap excuse for lazy promoters. Many tracks are doing just fine.
Also… Chassisdude… you’re trying to make a point with a guy that used to BE a tire dealer. And his son still is. You’re on the right track, but when the tracks figured out THEY could profit from tire & fuel sales, they put the screws to the racers. Not-so-long ago, a minimum tire & fuel purchase was unheard of, along with Entry Fees and Pit Slab fees. Racetracks are gouging the racers that support them. This problem is also MUCH worse at asphalt tracks than it is at dirt tracks.
first off this isnt a v8 bomber class or mini stock everyone know’s what it takes to run theses cars and be up front it’s part of racing if you cant afford it dont do it why sit here and complain on how much tires are or payout. Racing isnt cheap never has been never will be it’s simple!!
Obviously money is no object for you but for the average guy paying $400 plus for tires each week to race for $600 to win is a losing situation from the start. Either you are lucky and have money to burn or you have a sponsor and you never had to pay your own way. Sure racing is expensive but to know you will tow to a track and after all expenses you must pay even if you win the feature you lost money for the weekend, and this is not counting initial cost of building or buying a car and motor, crash damage amd weekly maintenance. Dirtracer there is no reason why a guy shouldn’t be able to come close to breaking even at the end of the night of racing, (with no car or motor damage) on most nights. All I have been saying is a hard tire will even the field, last a lot longer, saving the team a lot of money, bring more cars to the track and in turn more fans in the stands.
[QUOTE=Frasson118;117868]“bad economy” is just a cheap excuse for lazy promoters. Many tracks are doing just fine.
Also… Chassisdude… you’re trying to make a point with a guy that used to BE a tire dealer. And his son still is. You’re on the right track, but when the tracks figured out THEY could profit from tire & fuel sales, they put the screws to the racers. Not-so-long ago, a minimum tire & fuel purchase was unheard of, along with Entry Fees and Pit Slab fees. Racetracks are gouging the racers that support them. This problem is also MUCH worse at asphalt tracks than it is at dirt tracks.[/QUOTE]
Yep Jerry a track owner promoter race fan and car tire dealer fule sales ans cooked a few hot dogs for many years but we know u had a racing forklift once.
You talk like the tracks are raking in the cash… They are throwing out the cash just like the racer. All of us are in the same boat and ned to row in the same direction.
Yep jerry i know i cant spell and u can!!
Don62
I am moving down to Florida this weekend and was running sportsmans in Michigan/indiana area. I really wanted to run them down here BUT the rules are not even close to what we have in the north and with the stock spindles, clutches, calipers, shocks and such, thats a street stock for tracks in the north. Also, I was BLOWN AWAY when I started reading rules at all the tracks and seeing such a thing as a minimum fuel having to be bought at the track as well as the fact it was near or over $10 a gallon. Topped it off with the tire prices being absolutely nuts compared to what we payed up here. Race fuel is $7 a gallon, which is on the high end, & There is no requirement to buy it from the track. Tires (Hooiser 800’s or 970’s) are $95-$100 each with no requirement of how many to buy. The purse is average of $500 to win & $120 to start for 30-35 lap races. We have a few 100 lap shows at different tracks paying 5k to win and several 50 lap shows paying $1000 to win/$200 to start. After seeing all the cost increases down here and the purse being so low compared to where we run in the north, I opted to just run Pro Late or Late Model and drop my sportsman idea even though the multiple motor rules for supers is another crazy deal that is so confusing, anyone not calling and talking to people would come down and not have a clue what they could run. I realize the pros and supers are on slicks but I honestly knew that I was losing before I left the house to head to the track in sportsmans.
with that all said, the outlaw super lates is the class that is dying in the north and the template bodied sportsman/limited lates we have up there are slowly becoming the premier class in the next few years due to the purse being able to be less. the counts in the sportsmans are much larger then supers, fan base is not as great as it was 10 years ago but was better this past season & better then any track I visited in Florida the 4 times we come down looking for house and visiting several tracks. One thing is the same up north versus down south…the sportsmans & street stocks put on the best racing compared to the super lates.
best of luck to all, I am personally hoping this all works out as I enjoy racing at different places, enjoy running the sportsman class the most of all the classes I have raced, and if it does, all the kinks get worked out & such with rules, purse and such for this series, I would love to build a new sportsman and sell the late model.
I am moving to Florida this weekend & I have to say as someone who has been involved in racing the last 40 years as a former track employee with knowledge & experience in all areas of track operations, a racer who has had to fund out of pocket with no budget as well as have had fortunate years with big sponsors. When I spent several weeks looking for houses & checking out all the tracks in Florida, I was BLOWN AWAY when I seen the mandatory fuel purchase rules as well as the extremely high prices for fuel, tires and some tracks pit pass & fan admission prices. At all the tracks I race at or go to, I have never seen the mandatory/minimum purchase stuff & fuel is MAX $7 a gallon, Tires are alot cheaper then they are down here, tracks are coming up with lots of creative gate specials for fans & the purses are MUCH better from top to bottom.
Also, FYI for up north (Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, Wisconsin) the majority of the tracks up north that do try to charge entry fees, have higher fuel costs & tire costs, are the tracks that are hurting the most, are in danger of closing or have closed. the ones who have seen things differently & have actually accepted the inevitable. They have worked to keep the exspense for the racer down as much as they could as well as dropping the gate & concession prices mixed with special nights of group discounts. These are the ones getting more cars/fans, doing very well with no signs or need of considering closing. Making a SMALL, FAIR profit on tires, fuel, food, and such is fine as it is a business & its impossible to run a business by simply breaking even. I have never had an issue with track owners making a little money or profit as whether they are old school and just love racing or all business, its part of being an owning a business is to make profit not just break even. However, the ones gouging or being greedy are the ones I dont feel sorry & in my opinion, nor do they when it fails because they simply needed to take off the blinders & see that changes are needed before its too late.
The fact is, what does work & what does keep em coming is to be able to go race with at least a “CHANCE” of breaking even or maybe even making a little bit every now and then & it goes the same for the fans…If they cannot take the family out on saturday night for less then what thier entertainment budget allows, which is alot less then it used to be, then they simply decide to stay home, cookout or do something that thier budget can afford. The other thing alot of the tracks are or have done is went to bi-weekly races for the higher classes as well as not having as many outside special series type events. They still have them but just not as much as they used to. Really it boils down to looking at one way or the other…is it better to have 1000-1200 fans in the stands at $10 a head or 250-300 at $15.00 a head? Is it better to have 100 cars in the pits because you sell fuel & tires cheaper, wave entry & slab fees or have 50 because you feel you have to make a killing off of all those things? Numbers dont lie and the math is pretty simple.
In todays economy, the whole “less equals more” concept is what truly works the best. The owners or promoters who see this as well as the ones who start doing all the can to never send a car home for not making the exact rules & instead work to allow any car to race with weight penalties or whatever that makes it fair for everyone. this type of thought process will also be the ones who prosper from the ones who dont.