Sorry for getting off subject Phil.
In my opinion, which ever you choose for your “primary” motor should also be your choice for a back up engine. If not you will need to buy parts just in case you ever have to switch. Carbs are different. Gears will be different, so if you run a 9" that can really add up, chunks aren’t cheap. In most cases the chassis set-up will be quite different… just something else to consider.
“…the plan is to run the high banks of NSS and getting down the straights is just as key there as getting through the corners.” --PJ
Moreso, IMO.
Crate motor is they way to go for budget racer, 93 octane fuel, mine is completely stock just put a 7" pan on it. It allows you to work on chassis more and get through corners, that in turn make you able to use the horsepower rather than spinning the tires.
Aaron Williamson
Tube car has Winters QC so really wouldn’t worry too much about gearing cause I have many options in gears already from a 511 to about a 630 already from the guy I got the car from and I already have a nicely prepped VDL 650 from the Outlaw in my signature pic I would just have to verify that it would pass track gauges before use. Sure, the setup would be different but I really am not sure it would be different enough to make a huge difference. It’s likely that if I lost a motor at the track, unless it happened in the first round of practice and I had the backup and time to swap I would just pack it up, park the trailer outside the track and drink beer the rest of the night and support my friends.
Most likely, I will have 2 cars unless I bend the hell out of the G car here before I come back next year… The G car wouldn’t be worth selling for the financial loss here regardless so it would be better to just keep it and cut it up when I am done or let friends have some fun in it. I doubt anyone really cares for G car sportsman anymore and wouldn’t be worth much as a Super Stock because of the changes it would require to revert it back to one, so might as well just keep it and race it till it’s bent to hell lmfao
I’m not sure how much extra HP a quick change takes up Vs. just a 9" and how that would effect a Crate Car? I’m sure there are some guys on here that have them and could shed some light on it…
As far as chassis changes between the two, the rules are different for total and left side weight, so you’ll have to change that as well as account for weight differences with the engine itself. If you’re at the track thrashing after a blown engine you surely wouldn’t worry about shocks and springs but after some testing time I think you may be surprised at how different the set-ups would end up being.
Good Luck!!!
Phil,
I saw this thread Sunday and decided not to post being it is the most heated debate in sportsman racing. Seeing how you have only gotten good feedback from crate guys and I have what I believe is viewed as one of the if not the highest dollar built motor running in the class. I thought you would really appreciate some form of a built motor drivers stance on this. That being said I feel they are quite surprisingly even. I pull some crate guys as well as some have pulled me. I don’t think they are near as consistent on specs from motor to motor as gm claims. My father and I love doing business with Byron Koury and have had nothing but top notch motors come from them all the way from super stocks to super lates. I would have to agree that the crates are competitive for significantly less money. Not sure where you’re currently located but if you can you should just come to NSS this saturday. The best of both sides will be in attendance and I’m predicting that tech will be thoroughly inspecting to make sure nobody is being dishonest as Jeff and his crew have been working hard to rid this class of cheating for the past 2 years. Thus resulting in what is arguably the best class going in Florida even though there isn’t a traveling series for us.
[QUOTE=Todd Allen;151064]Phil,
I saw this thread Sunday and decided not to post being it is the most heated debate in sportsman racing. Seeing how you have only gotten good feedback from crate guys and I have what I believe is viewed as one of the if not the highest dollar built motor running in the class. I thought you would really appreciate some form of a built motor drivers stance on this. That being said I feel they are quite surprisingly even. I pull some crate guys as well as some have pulled me. I don’t think they are near as consistent on specs from motor to motor as gm claims. My father and I love doing business with Byron Koury and have had nothing but top notch motors come from them all the way from super stocks to super lates. I would have to agree that the crates are competitive for significantly less money. Not sure where you’re currently located but if you can you should just come to NSS this saturday. The best of both sides will be in attendance and I’m predicting that tech will be thoroughly inspecting to make sure nobody is being dishonest as Jeff and his crew have been working hard to rid this class of cheating for the past 2 years. Thus resulting in what is arguably the best class going in Florida even though there isn’t a traveling series for us.[/QUOTE]
Todd, I appreciate the input greatly. I’d love to come, but I live in Mass and only make it down there 3 or 4 times a year right now. The next time I will be down is the end of January for the Rolex 24 and obviously you guys aren’t doing much racing by then.
Okay, so the interest level for the Saturday night race at New Smyrna is growing.
It has been raining here a lot lately. Some folks are stocking up on bags of sand to keep the water out…
[QUOTE=Patrick Thomas 25;151010]I am a crate motor guy, if I had unlimited money I would also have an open motor. I don’t have that kind of funds. The crate motor is $3,100 delivered to my door. There are places you are allowed to change the timing chain, most you cannot. You used to be allowed to change the valve springs to an aftermarket replacement spring, but I think that has now changed. You are allowed to change the oil pan at most places, the one track that hasn’t allowed you to do that, says they will allow it next year, they will be making you have a 7" sump like the other tracks. Other than those few things nothing else has ever been legal for you to change on your 602 crate motor.
I had a good open motor before I bought my first crate motor. It ran 17 races, cost me $6,500 and needed to be freshened after every season.
I have had 4 different crate motors, the first I ran 13 races, I then sold that complete motor after the race to one of my competitors who thought it must be a good one so they wanted it.
I bought the next motor the next Monday morning, I ran that motor 17 races, and then sold the car.
I bought my next car 2 years later, it had a crate motor in it, which was in need of a rebuild, the guy that owned it had no idea how old it was.
I bought the motor I have now January 1 2012, it has 18 races on it now, stock timing chain still seems to be plenty tight, judging by the timing light. I have changed the valve springs 3 times and changed the oil regularly. This motor has won 11 of those 18 races and just seems to be getting stronger. There is no sign of this motor needing to be rebuilt anytime soon.
If you don’t turn these crate motors too many Rpm’s they will last for a long time.
I am never the fastest car down the straightaway with the crate motor, but I have long heard the race is won in the corners. The best thing about the crate motor is that you can drive the car and not spin the tires off the corners.
Patrick Thomas 25[/QUOTE]
Thank you Patrick…I didn’t know they were that durable.
Yeah that’s amazing! Even when I had more resources available and had a family member building my motors with a machine shop at his disposal I never really enjoyed that part of racing. I like to drive and try to make the car handle better. I enjoy building and maintaining racecars but not engines. I just want one in there I can rely on and obviously is good enough to win. Sounds like a viable option!
BTW 5 Flags and Mobile have two shops designated as the only authorized motor shops allowed to work on em. Not sure how I feel about that exactly but the Bryants run a pretty tight ship and all other things seems to be on the up and up so I feel confident if they say this is the place to go then they’re not going to screw you or your motor.
Crate motor cars take 1st and 2nd at the New Smyrna Speedway Sportsman 50.
A crate motor car was fast time, a built motor car was 2nd fast, a crate motor car was 3rd fast, a built motor car was 4th fast.
Patrick Thomas 25
Patrick answers a question I was going to ask!
Regrettably, came close but did not make the event.
Patrick, was a weight break or etc. provided to the crate cars?
If so, how much?
There is no weight break for crate motor cars, we are the same weight as the built motor cars.
Patrick Thomas 25.
???
I have always been told that you have to have a big motor for this track ? Congrats on your win Patrick…
The race was won because my car was able to be wide open throttle, 2 car lengths before the center of the corner. When that happens, it makes the straightaway longer and the crate motor look to have more power than it actually has.
My crate motor is always available for the price of a new motor in the crate $3,100.00
Patrick Thomas 25
The race was won because my car was able to be wide open throttle, 2 car lengths before the center of the corner. When that happens, it makes the straightaway longer and the crate motor look to have more power than it actually has.
My crate motor is always available for the price of a new motor in the crate $3,100.00
Patrick Thomas 25[/QUOTE]
I’ll tell Kelly about your motor. 
Congrats on the win! Daughter came down from college to visit. See you at CMP!
I think it’s funny that a few guys on here belive you should have a motor built and support you local machine shop /engine builder. its because of them with thier high cost to build a motor that also hurt local raceing and any good machine shop is not depending on racers to stay in business. does anybody know how many sportsman car had crates vs built motors? I bet over half. patrick is always my favorite to watch . Anytime you can go out to race and you can do it cheaper and win makes it that much more fun.
Sportsman 50
B=BUILT
C=CRATE
Thanks scott for posting that. bottom line support you local track!! not the engine shop buy the crate motor and go raceing. If everybody is running the same motor it will be a great race.
27 and 45 both have built motors
i believe the 88 is a crate motor.