Correct
Don62, you r 100% correct. Vince
I have asked for years to get a parts list for the Florida Spec Engine and was told you cannot get it. Only way you could get one is buy one and tear it down. the only other is to go with the one Ricky Brooks talked about is the way to go. But that’s my opinion. You don’t need a spec block, pistons, rods, push rods, crank and so on with the SSPE engine. Just as long as they fit the rules(weight & dimensions). It doesn’t matter what brand the parts are unlike the Florida “Spec” engine is where the parts have to be of a certain brand too.
Although I think you were a bit hard on RB, I understood him, this has been an informative thread. I was totally in the dark about the motor situation with the supers. Last time I was privy to the cost of an engine for the supers it was 25 grand, and that was for a mid priced engine. Sounds like they have it pretty much under control now.
The parts lists for both the super spec and the limited spec are on the internet somewhere as they were in Wayne Anderson’s FAST series rules. An internet pro should be able to find them.
[QUOTE=Don Nerone;156709]the spec engine idea started in the north and south at the same time.
The cost of a 9 to 1 was over $40,000 for a new one. the as u would call it Rule engine from the engine builders had gone over $30,000.
The idea of the spec engine was to match the hp for a low cost.
The reason the teams don’t get a parts list is because they cant build one anyway. The cost when it started was $16,000.
There is no gringing polishing blasting dipping or any other things done to the original parts to run up cost. Just parts.
The engine is sealed and sold to the teams.
No tracks get anything of the sale of these engines. They last and they are fast and 1/2 the cost
There are 3 engine builders in florida and when I left there were 2 in the north.
These engines are not the only ones in SLM. There are some 9to1 and steel head teams still out there. There choice.
The tracks and teq people have the list of parts and seal # for these engines so there is no secret.
don62[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the information Don. I had heard some of this before, but didn’t know the details.
If i read your post correctly, the spec engine builders are an exclusive club. You mention that there are only three of them. And Ricky proudly points out that they all three contribute money.
Who was it that picked these three builders and left everyone else out?
And why were any engine builders left out?
Am i correct in thinking that any of the other hundred or so engine builders in Florida can join the “spec engine builders club” if they’re willing to put up money?
And is there any real reason the tracks aren’t willing to share their secret list of parts for the spec engines?
Because it seems to me that the racer ought to be allowed to build his own, or have one built by the engine guy of his choice as long as the parts list is followed and the secret seals are affixed to the engine.
There’s a very clearly defined and laid out set of rules for the build your own if you, or your engine builder(s) wants to.
Just curious why the cost of the motors is such a hot topic?
Why don’t they spec out cars and only let certain people build them?
Has anyone checked on the price of a new car these days, well go ahead and see it is way above the motor price. Lets not even start talking about the transmissions and these new shocks. Blame it all on the motor builder. From the races I have seen lately NSS gov cup, speed weeks, Desoto last night, Southern super race today in Opp, Ala. one of my motors will by far out last a car. Racers crashe and repair cars by far more than a motor. So go figure how and who is saving what??? I guess it depends on who you ask.
Last point the best car counts that I recall in Florida were during Burt Ashelmans Florida Pro series. Built motors lots of builders choose your own, build your own etc… Bring it to tech and get it checked. If I recall 1996 season opener at Lake city my first super late race. There was a B main and several cars did not make the show and likewise at several other races throughout the season.
One last point I left out…
I worked for Dennis Boyd for oh 20 years or so… We built winning NASCAR Busch motors that were 30k and super late motors that were 26-28k for many years. So when I see these post were the motors were 40k I get a little confused and aggravated. I didn’t see any of our customers loose races because they didn’t have enough motor or didn’t spend that 40k or more. Seems like the numbers have been skewed??? Sometimes people talk about shit they know nothing about…
If anyone needs built motors call. You do not have to buy a sPeC.
SSPE parts engine for Florida and touring series Cars and Southern Super Series
Jacob Warren
Am all confused.
Since the beginning of automobiles the first thing has been to “hop up the engine” to go faster. The second thing has been to limit the modifications so that a field is somewhat equal.
Yet no mention of displacement, compression, camshaft limitations…
If a $17K (or whatever) motor can hang with a $40K motor–with decent longevity, what is in the $40K motor that makes it $40K? I mean, every motor I have ever built has always been limited by cash. Cast crank? Cast pistons? And on and on.
Seems like the conversation would go like: “…and then there is xyz crank which is lighter and stronger, and some new titanium valves, same deal, and…”.
Simlarly, does tech just say “Oh, it is just an ABC company spec motor, no need to look at that…”
Finally, if you “build your own” --what are the guidelines?
Seems like that would get closer to the original question regarding a parts list.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;156761]Am all confused.
Since the beginning of automobiles the first thing has been to “hop up the engine” to go faster. The second thing has been to limit the modifications so that a field is somewhat equal.
Yet no mention of displacement, compression, camshaft limitations…
If a $17K (or whatever) motor can hang with a $40K motor–with decent longevity, what is in the $40K motor that makes it $40K? I mean, every motor I have ever built has always been limited by cash. Cast crank? Cast pistons? And on and on.
Seems like the conversation would go like: “…and then there is xyz crank which is lighter and stronger, and some new titanium valves, same deal, and…”.
Simlarly, does tech just say “Oh, it is just an ABC company spec motor, no need to look at that…”
Finally, if you “build your own” --what are the guidelines?
Seems like that would get closer to the original question regarding a parts list.[/QUOTE]
The “SPEC” motors are I believe a 374-377 which would be a de-stroked 400 block with 350 crank. With the increased displacement and some good flowing Brodix heads, pop-up pistons, and decent internals to make around 610-620 hp with mid 500’s tq. for $17k not dressed.
The 9-1 guys were spending 25-30k+ because they had to spend so much money on lightweight internals like 35lb cranks, titanium rods, titanium valves, coated this, lightened that, acid dip, port and polish work, $3k on a cheated up 390 carb etc…all trying to stay within the box they were put with the compression rule.
The SPEC/Sealed motor definitely helped save SLM racing as far as $ goes. All are built the “same” and the tech man has the parts list and tolerances. Generally as long as it is sealed no one questions anything. But if need be, they can be opened up and checked just like everything else.
Progressive had the monopoly on this motor for so long because he was the one that helped developed it. And of course, reaping all the benefits, why would you want to give away your business to other builders. It took a few years but now you can get them from Cope, Crume, McGunegill, and Hamner that I know of. Also, like Ricky Brooks said, you can build your own from a parts list. JWP has I think one or 2 out there with Daniel Keene.
And yes Ricky IS basically in charge of the SPEC motor Matt. He is the head tech man basically for the state of FL for SLM racing. He plays fair and will DQ Kyle Busch, Steven Wallace, or Chase Elliot just as quick as you and I…I’ve seen it.
Hope this helps 
Eric Purcell
Thx, Eric.
Soooooooo the SPEC motor can basically run with a higher dollar “built” motor because it has another 20 or so cubic inches.
Makes sense. Finally.
And the Tech guy knows “the rules” for both.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;156786]Thx, Eric.
Soooooooo the SPEC motor can basically run with a higher dollar “built” motor because it has another 20 or so cubic inches.
Makes sense. Finally.
And the Tech guy knows “the rules” for both.[/QUOTE]
In a nutshell…yes:auto003:
And are the precise rules details available somewhere for Old Racer or…
are they only known by the tech man and Progressive?
Thx RB.
The earlier mentioned SSPE rules are there, but they are based on the 362 ci motor with 11.5:1 compression (!!).
(the beginning is listed below)
[I]Southern Super Parts Engine (SSPE)
Southern Super Parts Engine (May Be Claimed for $21,000 + pulling fee)
- Maximum Engine displacement is 362 cubic inches.[/I]
The answer on the SPEC engine thus far appears to be…“no”.
Hard to believe. “That guy just beat me, what is he running?” “A ‘SPEC’ engine”.“Really. What is that?” “No one knows. You have to buy one”.
Also note that the 9:1 motors may be phased out starting in 2016.
No wonder the fields are light. Let’s see, I have $15k I could pay down my mortgage with, but I want to build a new motor for my late model. What is the best choice?
I believe I would buy a Sportsman Crate motor and pay down $10k on the house.
If I am not mistaken the Super Spec Motor is 390CI
Dalton, it might be 390… I thought it was in the neighborhood of 377. Uses a 4.155 bore (400 block bored .30 over) and a 3.48 stroke (stock 350) crank. Either way, it is a big bore short stroke combo to make less torque and more HP for better traction up off.
So I guess the answer to the question, “Is there a build list for the Progressive SPEC motor?” is no. There isn’t one published that I know of since Wayne Anderson’s FAST series dissolved. It used to be out there. In reality, it really doesn’t matter what is in it. If you want one, buy one. If not, build your own. The other mentioned “Spec” motor is still the same concept and can get equal dyno numbers for a comparable cost with any engine builder you desire.
So long story short, SLM drivers have plenty of options as to what and who they want to run for a motor in their car. Starting from around 17k and ranging to about 35k. If you can’t afford it I suggest buying a street stock or sportsman as above mentioned.
Eric Purcell
[QUOTE=RowdyBloomquist;156840]Dalton, it might be 390… I thought it was in the neighborhood of 377. Uses a 4.155 bore (400 block bored .30 over) and a 3.48 stroke (stock 350) crank. Either way, it is a big bore short stroke combo to make less torque and more HP for better traction up off.
So I guess the answer to the question, “Is there a build list for the Progressive SPEC motor?” is no. There isn’t one published that I know of since Wayne Anderson’s FAST series dissolved. It used to be out there. In reality, it really doesn’t matter what is in it. If you want one, buy one. If not, build your own. The other mentioned “Spec” motor is still the same concept and can get equal dyno numbers for a comparable cost with any engine builder you desire.
So long story short, SLM drivers have plenty of options as to what and who they want to run for a motor in their car. Starting from around 17k and ranging to about 35k. If you can’t afford it I suggest buying a street stock or sportsman as above mentioned.
Eric Purcell[/QUOTE]
" it really doesn’t matter what is in it " ??? If there isn’t a list of legal parts and specs for this mystery engine, then you can put anything you want into it. But doesn’t that defeat the purpose of a spec engine. This sounds like a Ricky Brooks ego rule. " I know what’s in em and i’m the only one that needs to know"
Maybe racers don’t want to buy one, maybe they want to build their own. Problem with that idea is that the racer won’t have any idea what’s legal and what’s not. You don’t even know…" it might be 390, i thought it was in the neighborhood of 377 " .
And the Five Flags rules don’t apply state wide do they? This sounds like the tech guys are making it up as they go along. Well, one tech guy anyway.
Matt you must not be too familiar with today’s SLM racing and its rules. Steve and Brian from Progressive started building these motors years ago before Ricky Brooks became so prominent. Side note: he is probably the best tech man the sport has seen in a long time. Strict but fair. But this really has nothing to do with him.
There is a parts list that the builders for these motors have… The reason only a few are allowed to build them, is to try and keep a level playing field. Like you said, you can put whatever you want in them…That goes for any class, any engine, any state. That’s what tech and protests are for. With the SPEC’s, if an engine is in question by racers or tech man, they can have it opened up for inspection. Which has happened a couple of times. You have 3 options to buy a “Florida Spec” motor. Progressive, Crume, or Cope. If you don’t want one of those, choose the SSPE engine which ANYONE can build. If you don’t like that, choose the 9:1, if you don’t like that, choose the flat top steel head motor…if you don’t like that, go play iracing…
Just a question for you Matt, do you own a race car or race? I see you are quite prominent on this board, but I have never met you at the track (and I’ve been everywhere and know a lot of people.) If not, why concern yourself with this debate.
Eric Purcell
And yes the 5 flags rules are pretty global. Most tracks run these rules in the state of FL and most of the touring SLM series do as well. Why wouldn’t you want the same rules everywhere??? Seems that would make it easier to go from track to track and not have to worry about owning 5 different chassis with 15 different motor combos…