Open Statement to Track Owners
As a fan, I cannot tell and do not care if they are running 14 or 16 second laps.
Nor do I care about what tires the cars have on them, or what the brand is, or if they have treads or not.
I do care if the cars are door handle to door handle (and I do care if they are not), and I do care if there are six or sixteen of them.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;153510]Scott,
Have you had any discussions with the Hoosier company per se?
After all, ultimately they will sell less tires, it would seem.
Matt, it seems self evident: Anything that decreases weekly costs will increase car count. And vice versa.
The rest is just background noise.[/QUOTE]
Couldn’t agree more…except that weekly costs are inherent in racing. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? Remember in the not very distant past how drivers would show up to any track that was open, sleep in their trucks in the parking lot, and race the next day for for not much more than a trophy and maybe tow money? Racers keep coming up with more and more reasons why they don’t want to race and before long you’ve got 6 car features.
There’s also plenty of evidence that racers are not coming to the tracks no matter what perks are added. Tires are a small part of the cost of racing. Many guys have 10 seasons worth of new race tires invested in the enclosed trailer they use to get to the track.
And of course there’s always that damn “tracks have to make money too” thing. They make money selling tires. So what? Are the tracks supposed to drop the back injector/ejector prices, and the front injector/ejector prices, and the food prices, and the tire prices, and the fuel prices yet still keep the lights on?
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;153513]As a fan, I cannot tell and do not care if they are running 14 or 16 second laps.
Nor do I care about what tires the cars have on them, or what the brand is, or if they have treads or not.
I do care if the cars are door handle to door handle (and I do care if they are not), and I do care if there are six or sixteen of them.[/QUOTE]
I think the average fan probably cares more about close racing than lap times. Up to a point. I’m not even sure the average fan cares if it’s a 6 car race or a 12 car race as long as it’s a good race. I’ve seen a number of races for the lead between 2 or 3 cars when i wasn’t even paying any attention to the rest of the field.
But Matt, assuming the thing isn’t blown up or needs a front clip, all of the expenses you name are serious enough, but if there is another $400 or so needed for tires…that may very well be the tipping point.
“[serious] costs are inherent in racing”–MA
Absolutely true, but by definition the Sportsman guys have limited pocketbooks–otherwise they would be running a new late model with a new built engine.
Just like a first car, the purchase price is not the expense, the money is in keeping it on the road.
I just cannot see “let 'em lump it” equalling a big car count.
But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;153518]But Matt, assuming the thing isn’t blown up or needs a front clip, all of the expenses you name are serious enough, but if there is another $400 or so needed for tires…that may very well be the tipping point.
“[serious] costs are inherent in racing”–MA
Absolutely true, but by definition the Sportsman guys have limited pocketbooks–otherwise they would be running a new late model with a new built engine.
Just like a first car, the purchase price is not the expense, the money is in keeping it on the road.
I just cannot see “let 'em lump it” equalling a big car count.
But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.[/QUOTE]
If guy’s are spending $400.00 per week for race tires, they think it’s necessary. And to win, maybe it is. But not everyone can afford to win, some just enjoy going fast. And i’m not so sure the racers are spending $400.00 a week on tires. And if a guy DOESN’T buy $400.00 worth of tires each week, is that the reason he’s not winning or does he just use that as an excuse? As i’ve said before, if the racers can’t afford to race, then they shouldn’t. I know i could afford $400.00 a week for tires. I might bitch about it constantly, but i could afford it. Writing a check for a crate motor would be an entirely different proposition for me though.
I don’t see" let um lump it" as a way to get the car counts up either, but eventually either you’re going to stop complaining and go racing, or you’re not. SEE POST #17. Short track oval racing is about as cheap as real racing gets. So if this is out of your league, there’s not too many other options.
I am over this whole topic, the tires cost between $520-$560 bucks depending on which place you buy them from. When you put new tires on you can expect lap times to improve between 3 and 6 tenths of a second per lap. If you want to win, which all racers do, you will have to buy tires if anybody with a decent car does, just to be able to compete with the new tires.
I pull my car on an open trailer behind an old ford truck, yes all the way to Pensacola earlier this month. My entire racing budget is spent on my racecar, and 70% of what I spend is on tires, nobody can tell me that if you let us race on a harder tire! that lasts longer that racing will not improve. My tire bill for this year was $3,360.00 and I only ran 9 races. I have never put on a set of tires for a practice night, just to answer that question before it is asked.
My crate motor is 3 years old now and it cost me less than my tire bill for this year. You do the math, the tire bill is too high for a support class.
Patrick Thomas 25
I say put us on the f53 slick. At least we can get a couple more nights on a set and no dam race car needs to be on a treaded tire. M.P.
give the guy a (financial) break
Any business owners casually considering sponsoring a race car should strongly consider sponsoring Patrick Thomas.
My observation is that he races hard, but clean.
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;153534]Any business owners casually considering sponsoring a race car should strongly consider sponsoring Patrick Thomas.
My observation is that he races hard, but clean.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree…Patrick Thomas races hard, races clean, puts on a great show and deserves sponsorship to the max… if anyone is thinking about sponsoring a race team… this one is one to invest in…you won’t be disappointed…OSF said dat…
Great. That’s what we need, Patrick Thomas WITH MONEY! That way he can really whip all of our asses! (You DO realize he set 3 track records his year with a legal 3 yr old Crate motor).
It has been since 2008 that I’ve had a full time sponsor, I had 2 different individuals buy a set of tires for me this year, I also had a radiator donated. We had a good year after knocking the clip off due to a bad part that I custom built.
I will gladly accept any sponsorship help, and appreciate you guys noticing that I race on a shoestring and compete with the big buck teams.
Thanks
Patrick Thomas 25
Hope to race about 20 times next year, pending the tire decision.
Showtime this Wednesday the Hoosier rep will be there with the new 2 groove tire
Matt
I hear Matt saying that he could spend $400/week, but he might complain about it constantly…Maybe you should be proactive in our sport by supporting a low budget team occasionally and then you would have your own insight as to how important tires are and how much they cost. Not a lot of people have an extra chunk of money laying around each week to buy tires…sounds to me like you could be making a difference besides typing away on a forum.
I race an OWM, and I am normally very competitive…I know myself that if it weren’t for the generous payouts that we have been getting over the last few years, I wouldn’t be able to afford to put tires on my car like I do (which is the minimum that I believe it takes to win). Imagine how tough that must be for a smaller class, who doesn’t get the same type of payout that we do, but yet needs to put tires on their car almost as much as we do.
[QUOTE=racin24dev;153565]I hear Matt saying that he could spend $400/week, but he might complain about it constantly…Maybe you should be proactive in our sport by supporting a low budget team occasionally and then you would have your own insight as to how important tires are and how much they cost. Not a lot of people have an extra chunk of money laying around each week to buy tires…sounds to me like you could be making a difference besides typing away on a forum.
I race an OWM, and I am normally very competitive…I know myself that if it weren’t for the generous payouts that we have been getting over the last few years, I wouldn’t be able to afford to put tires on my car like I do (which is the minimum that I believe it takes to win). Imagine how tough that must be for a smaller class, who doesn’t get the same type of payout that we do, but yet needs to put tires on their car almost as much as we do.[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen you race a number of times, you do a great job. My point is…if you’re going to race, then you have to be prepared to spend the money that’s required. If you don’t have the money, either stop racing or get into a type of racing/class of racing that better suits your checkbook. The fact that some racers can and will spend the money to win doesn’t mean everyone has to spend the same amount. But as long as there’s been racing, money has helped determine the outcome.
Now there are people like Patrick who claim their performance has nothing to do with spending lots of money. And i suspect he’s worked very hard to get the performance he apparently now has. But Patrick should total up EVERY dime he’s spent on this car from day 1 and post it. I’m betting the total would be wayyyy out of touch for the average Saturday night racer. Or in other words, it’s all relative.
I have in fact helped out a number of small/under financed teams over the years. I purchased a set of tires for a team at Desoto years ago. I’ve given teams tow home money after they’ve had a particularly bad night. I’ve loaned a pick up truck to a team that needed a way to get the race car to the track. And i’ve handed out a dist cap or motor oil plenty of times with the " i’ll bill you later " routine. Of course i never billed them, never planned to. Just wanted to be proactive.
My thoughts on tires are pretty well known, i think the majority of classes should be required to run ONLY take offs, there’s plenty of them and they’re a bargain.
Matt, I am confused. Not that I am the essence of consistency, but…
This thread (and others) has to do with cheap(er) longer lasting tires vs short lived tires.
On the one hand, your point is “If you don’t have the bank roll, stay on the porch” (which, incidentally has always been part of my deal, and I stayed on the porch).
On the other hand, you state “…I think the majority of classes should be required to run ONLY take offs, there’s plenty of them and they’re a bargain.”
They do not seem to reconcile (to me).
Hell, if you go with Scott’s harder tire goal after two weeks they are takeoffs!
Further, again, I think 3 classes could run the same motor ($3,500 crate motor or junkyard equivalent) , and long lasting tires.
The same motors, and the same tires.
Hobby Stock
Modified
Late Model Sportsman
If there was a ton of them, and the racing was like the Sportsman event at Auburndale recently, that would do it for me.
No high dollar four bangers, no high dollar eight bangers.
Sure there are places for them–touring series for instance.
Skip the needs of the racers. Look at it economically:
>A track needs fans
>Fans want cars
>Racers need to be able to afford the cars
>Therefore, the track needs to figure out how to get the cars financially feasible so IT is financially feasible.
What do you say,Don
So Don, how do you feel about that, have your kid put the Hoosier on Patrick car…show a little love back to the racer. Maybe Jeff can help too:ernaehrung004:
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;153575]Matt, I am confused. Not that I am the essence of consistency, but…
This thread (and others) has to do with cheap(er) longer lasting tires vs short lived tires.
On the one hand, your point is “If you don’t have the bank roll, stay on the porch” (which, incidentally has always been part of my deal, and I stayed on the porch).
On the other hand, you state “…I think the majority of classes should be required to run ONLY take offs, there’s plenty of them and they’re a bargain.”
They do not seem to reconcile (to me).
Hell, if you go with Scott’s harder tire goal after two weeks they are takeoffs![/QUOTE]
My point ( not fully explored ) was that racers in many classes could be saved from themselves and their desire to spend what ever it takes, if they were forced to use take offs only. I would assume that the take offs would be 50% to 75% the price of new ones. And if the new tires from Hoosier fall off very little as we’ve been told, then the take offs would be cheaper than new and they would all perform about the same. With Scotts tire, the racers will still be buying new tires every week for whatever advantage they offered. Thats racing.
Now that we’re on the subject, what does happen to the enormous pile of used race tires that tracks and race tire dealers accumulate every year?
“And we got a cool logo too”.
From the “other” thread:
One amazing piece of information I will let out of the bag is that the year-old 100 lap 800’s WERE 2 TENTHS QUICKER THAN THE STICKER 800’s! This was true for both the Sportsman AND Super Stock they were tested on. Shannon Kelly (reigning and multi-time NSS Super Stock Champion) stated to me that he felt that he probably could get 10 races out of the 800!