You’re right, the photos don’t show the foam setup…on the " fairly new " Toyota or in use. Must not have had any foam in it. And the real question should be, does your favorite track use the spray foam equipment it supposedly has. I’m very surprised at the answer from NSS.
Again, not knocking anybody in the photos, or the rescue/fire/safety crews on site at NSS. But damn, that track needs to spend some money on the things that matter. And nothing matters more than the safety of the drivers and fans. We won’t even go into the exhaust tubing and rusty wires/cables used as safety fencing over there.
So what short track in this state has the proper equipment and manpower to extinguish a 22 gallon fuel fire ?
Here’s your answer armchair idiots.
None.
Well alrighty then, no need to check and see who has the equipment, that settles it.
Worse things could happen than a fuel cell winding up between 3 & 4.
Many times I have been there and the “action” was down the front stretch.
Billie Harvey (may he rest in peace) completely climbed above the wall and the fence thankfully held the car.
Dickie Anderson had an unfortunate deal recently that involved heading for the front stretch wall, and crowd.
If “the usual” ain’t good enough, it ain’t good enough.
ps–Have you seen the fence & walls at Daytona recently?
Time runs together, but I believe within the last 10 years both were beefed up significantly–at least by a power of two, if not more.
That was before Larson’s car coming apart, and that initiated more changes.
The new stands and escalators and wide floors between levels are beautiful, but you can no longer walk by the fence. Period. All entry is via the rear of the stands. This is in the new area, and I presume it will be in the remainder when it is completed.
I kind of missed that, especially where the sporty cars exit the infield back onto the bank, but that is the new way of doing things.
Further, I think they are going to remove 30 feet or so of grandstand closest to the track eventually, also for safety.
And it is beyond safety. There is liability to be considered as well.
One person hurt and the very photos shown above would be tough in front of a jury.
As mentioned, this incident may very well work out for the best in the long run.
Was there the night Marion Edwards was killed. They didn’t even have the pisser. I never attended another Julian Klein promotion again.
Matt “Desotoboy” Allbee,
Lets start with Desoto.
What do they have for equipment and manpower.
I’d like to see pix of NSS’s foam truck, it’s probably better than anything at any short track I’ve been to. Until you see a 22 gallon tank rupture and go up you just can’t fully believe it, though these pics certainly do it justice. There was a Late Model that burned down like that at Lake City about 20 years ago, I forget who it was and luckily he got out but it was scary. I feel for all involved, including the track and it’s insurance payments that might go up.
[QUOTE=UREZ2PASS;155533]Matt “Desotoboy” Allbee,
Lets start with Desoto.
What do they have for equipment and manpower.[/QUOTE]
An adequate amount of each. But as we all know, every track could probably use more. And some tracks could use a lot more.
Okay, we started with Desoto, which track next?
[QUOTE=Matt Albee;155546]An adequate amount of each. But as we all know, every track could probably use more. And some tracks could use a lot more.
Okay, we started with Desoto, which track next?[/QUOTE]
Adequate ? Highly doubtful for a 22 gallon fuel spill. You would need a fully equipped fire engine to be able to extinguish that amount of fire quickly.
Does Desoto have a fire engine at the track. If so, that’s great !
Please give us facts, not albeeisms.
As I recollect, Orlando Speedway used to have a big 'ol lumbering fire truck full of water that used to pull out onto the track when necessary.
Who has what seems to me to be beside the point. If none of them have adequate equipment then all of them should get it.
In this day of uber guvment regulation I cannot believe that this stuff does not have regs and inspectors. Heck, they have regs and inspectors if you run a church!
I am not certain what they have at Showtime, but I do know that Yoho put kiddie pools in the infield so that Sprint Car drivers that were on fire (with invisible alcohol burning fire) could jump into them.
Seems silly on the surface of it, but at least it was something.
Everytime there is a fuel fire like this at any track, there is a group of critics that emerge from the smoke.
Let’s start with the car. Why did the fuel cell rupture ? Did the car have a fire suppression system ?
And there’s always a group of indignant experts that emerge from that same smoke cloud. Human nature i guess.
Tracks don’t use fire trucks as first responders because full size fire trucks are far too slow and hard to maneuver. I think if you look, you’ll find that all major tracks and most sanctioning bodies use pick up trucks and either foam or another type of fire suppressing chemical. I don’t know of any that use antique trucks like NSS, but at least they have one.
All that is needed is a 250lb purple K unit and the 22gal is out.
The quesiton of who has one?? Newsmyrna had a 150lb and a 500lb unit when I left,
Orlando had a 250lb and a 500lb unit when I left,
Desoto had a 500 that I found for them.
Don hillard built the frame and David Rogers power coated the frame to make it a slide in unit.
This type of unit will put out that fire and it is should still be at the track.
don62
I’m not even going to spend the time reading most of these comments but I want to chime in here.
I see two glaring issues with what happened with Jordan’s car.
#1 the fuel cell rupture. What fuel cell did he have? (here I go with the up here stuff) Up here, we are REQUIRED to run ATL Bladder fuel cells to help prevent a rupture. Yes, they are damn near $1000… But tell me one thing before you argue me, would you rather spend $1000 now or $30,000 after a fire? I have spent my morning reading through the fuel cell rules at most tracks and they are pretty basic and vague. Jordan got out of the car and is thankfully alright, but what if he hadn’t been able to get out? Would that $1000 spent on a proper fuel cell have been worth it or not? When it comes to fire, it’s truly one of the largest safety issues at the track. It doesn’t happen often, but it CAN. And that possibility is enough for me to take the extra precautions to have proper systems in place.
#2 the fire crew at NSS. Seeing a guy standing there with what appears to be a garden hose in all the pictures I’ve seen with NO safety gear on makes me shake my head. As for the truck… Sorry, that dune buggy they have there isn’t going to be capable of extinguishing a fire of that size and nature. I don’t care what you have on it. (and again) up here, we have trucks at every race. Waterford is the only one without a full sized fire truck, but it’s a F350 super duty loaded with a chemical system and 3 or 4" fire hose and holds 500 gallons in the tank mounted in the bed along with the jaws of life and other safety apparatus. We have had a couple fires that could have gotten very bad very quick taken care of without issue out of that F350. It doesn’t always have to be a full size fire truck.
There really was no reason for that fire to happen as bad as it did. Proper equipment and proper training are key and DO mean the difference between life and death. I know every track doesn’t have a big budget, but imo you can’t put a price on someones life.
If you weren’t at the track to see it happen then all you can do is just assume the track crews did something wrong. The car was totally up in flames before the car barely stopped and the driver hadn’t even gotten out yet. This is kind of like saying Daytona Speedway has shitty fire safety crews as well because they couldn’t put out the jet dryer fire with Montoya as soon as it happen. And im not sure any fuel cell bladder would of held out a bumper bar that got shoved thru the can when the car lost its brakes and backed in wide open into the wall. Either way New Smyrna still needs to work on there safety crew.
well what would have happen if this car was upside down against the wall driver side ? scary thought are these guys trained at all for situations like that ?
It doesn’t make any difference at all to this thread if we were or weren’t at the track. We’re commenting on the photos that were posted. Those photos clearly show men fighting a big fire without the proper equipment.
Top quality fuel cells are very good at retaining fuel i’m sure, but obviously everything has it’s limits. I know people take the foam out of fuel cells and that just increases the risk of fire and explosion.
Yes, NSS needs to work on their safety crew.
This was going to be a devastating fire from the moment he backed it in forward. It caught too quick and had too much fuel out for it to be extinguished before the fiberglass etc light up.
This was one of those cases where that car was going to burn. I have seen cases where 15- 20 seconds later the car lights up (Brad Heath at VSP). This was not one of those deals. There was no real margin for error and the only thing that was going to save the driver was the driver. 20-30 seconds in and this thing was not turning back.
That said, I would hope they step up the game on the fire safety as the next time, it MIGHT be the difference maker.
There were plenty of pictures and video from the incident to come up with a reasonable opinion from 1500 miles away. Plus the accounts of nearly 100 friends who are down there racing with different teams.
The bottom line to me is, it starts with the teams. A bladdered fuel cell would have very likely prevented 90% of that damage. Sure, a break in the line may have happened as well, but a break in a fuel line (especially when the engine is off) is not going to dump all 22 gallons of fuel on the track like this clearly did. I’ve seen some VERY big rear end hits at Thompson over the years which is a faster track than New Smyrna without this result.
As I said, spend $1000 now, or $30,000 later. Your choice but the risks that come with that to me are not worth it. Always protect yourself and your investment the best you possibly can especially when you know the track isn’t quite up to par.
The track does need to step up their game substantially, but this issue was very much a result of inadequacies on both sides.