[QUOTE=Phil Jacques;155578]There were plenty of pictures and video from the incident to come up with a reasonable opinion from 1500 miles away. Plus the accounts of nearly 100 friends who are down there racing with different teams.
The bottom line to me is, it starts with the teams. A bladdered fuel cell would have very likely prevented 90% of that damage. Sure, a break in the line may have happened as well, but a break in a fuel line (especially when the engine is off) is not going to dump all 22 gallons of fuel on the track like this clearly did. I’ve seen some VERY big rear end hits at Thompson over the years which is a faster track than New Smyrna without this result.
As I said, spend $1000 now, or $30,000 later. Your choice but the risks that come with that to me are not worth it. Always protect yourself and your investment the best you possibly can especially when you know the track isn’t quite up to par.
The track does need to step up their game substantially, but this issue was very much a result of inadequacies on both sides.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure the cell did not have a bladder ? A bladder will puncture when a tube goes through it. This is also a result of the way these cars are constructed. There are a lot of pointy tubes and bars that can puncture a cell and bladder on high impact.
As I said before I go by what I was told, but a friend of mine made his way to the car post wreck and said the car had what appeared to be a JAZ style can in it from what he could see of the remains. I would love to be wrong, I really would. I’d love to think these teams take a little more pride in what they do especially at that level. Even at the bottom in Street Stocks, I am running an ATL 100 cell. Worth the $800 for me. The likelihood of a full puncture with a bladder is much much less than a plastic container that can split wide open easily and dump fuel everywhere. A bladder puncture won’t just spill 22 gallons of fuel instantly and it takes much more to puncture 3 layers of rubber and ballistic nylon like ATL cans are built with.
I think we need to confirm the car had a plastic cell. I find that hard to believe. Hopefully your eye witness mislead you. Care to tell us who he is so we can bash him if he was wrong. LOL !
“If you weren’t at the track to see it happen then all you can do is just assume the track crews did something wrong. The car was totally up in flames before the car barely stopped and the driver hadn’t even gotten out yet.”–cfontfan
Now I know fiberglass goes up pretty quickly, but the body is about melted off that car in the first shot–indicating that it had been burning for a while even when that picture was taken.
Here is the critical question for those that were in attendance: If the driver was unconscious, was the fire put out soon enough for others to have dragged him out in relatively good shape?
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;155595]EZ–thank you for that, that is good news indeed.
Now, timeline…?
I am assuming that the driver would have been about as flammable as the fiberglass (and aluminum?) body which is now completely gone.[/QUOTE]
In my opinion, if the driver was unconscious after he crashed and even if that fire truck was at the track when the crash took place, I don’t believe it would have been survivable. There ls just too much going on, fuel fire, car burning, and theoretically unconscious driver. It’s bad bad bad. Thank the good lord above the driver was able to get out of the car quickly.
It appears that an unconscious driver does not have long, even in a “good” suit.
Therefore a “fire” truck, full sized, F350, station wagon, whatever–needs to have enough equipment on it and be able to be there as close to that timeframe as possible. 10 seconds is probably not feasible, but if everything was ready to go, 30 seconds should be possible.
Seems like that “should” be one of the first priorities, along with a proper cage, belts, seat, and helmet.
“Enduros” or anything else without all of the above should stay at the house.
It just ain’t worth it, IMO, for everyone involved, including the fans.
[QUOTE=UREZ2PASS;155592]The car had a proper fuel cell. It got punctured and leaked fuel.
Whoever said it had a plastic cell is an idiot. Probably needs to be educated on how stuff turns black when it is subjected to fire.
The car was completely burning within a minute according to the driver who is the nephew of Dale Earnhardt JR’s crew chief.[/QUOTE]
Even charred and black with no markings, the two cell cans look different even if they are the same size. He pointed out to me that it appeared to be a JAZ cell by the top of the can and where the fittings were located.
I was told that Fire Truck wasn’t immediately in place. If it was, those people standing around watching it burn holding the garden hose and fire extinguishers wouldn’t have been there. Regardless of that truck being there, response was slow.
We had a supermod puncture a fuel cell at waterford last year and it didn’t escalate to near that magnitude and they run alcohol which not only burns nearly invisible but more volatile.
And tell me one more thing. Since they mandated bladder cells with check valves in the cup series… How many do you remember puncturing, even in some of the worst flips and crashes you’ve seen? I can’t remember any. Blown off oil lines, or fuel lines elsewhere on the car… Sure, but I have not seen a bladder cell puncture yet.
It appears that an unconscious driver does not have long, even in a “good” suit.
Therefore a “fire” truck, full sized, F350, station wagon, whatever–needs to have enough equipment on it and be able to be there as close to that timeframe as possible. 10 seconds is probably not feasible, but if everything was ready to go, 30 seconds should be possible.
Seems like that “should” be one of the first priorities, along with a proper cage, belts, seat, and helmet.
“Enduros” or anything else without all of the above should stay at the house.
It just ain’t worth it, IMO, for everyone involved, including the fans.[/QUOTE]
With properly trained professionals which I ASSUME they have, that fire should never have gotten that out of control if they had the proper equipment. There is NO argument for that. I believe inadequacies on both sides cost that team an entire car rather than just the rear half it should have been.
ps–Coincidentally, have been working like a doggie to put an electric pump in my 60’s ride (incurable vapor lock/fuel pressure issues).
As soon as I found out my home-brewed system “worked” (and it works darn well, thankfully), I wired in a (brace yourself) ford “inertia” switch, which will shut the thing off in case I cannot in an accident.
Not feasible in a race car, but the point is, fire is not good at any level and again, safety starts with the Team (that is…US).
[QUOTE=OldSchool+;155604]ps–Coincidentally, have been working like a doggie to put an electric pump in my 60’s ride (incurable vapor lock/fuel pressure issues).
As soon as I found out my home-brewed system “worked” (and it works darn well, thankfully), I wired in a (brace yourself) ford “inertia” switch, which will shut the thing off in case I cannot in an accident.
Not feasible in a race car, but the point is, fire is not good at any level and again, safety starts with the Team.[/QUOTE]
I agree it 100% start with the team, you prepare your vehicle to prevent all issues. But the track needs to be there to back you up. They weren’t in this instance. Im sure they have learned their lesson and you will be seeing changes at NSS soon. I don’t for one second believe any of them want to see this happen again.
I still have a very hard time believing that they had a bladder fuel cell in that car.
Have a good night, going to watch some racing on FansChoiceTv
OldSchool, I’m very safety conscious like you. I’ve got a hotrod with an electric fuel pump. There is a low oil pressure cut off switch on the fuel pump circuit in case I crash and can’t shut off the fuel pump. If the engine stalls, the fuel pump shuts off.
[QUOTE=UREZ2PASS;155608]Who’s arguing ? I was seeking the facts of this story and I found them.
I’m sure that spreading bad information is not something you’re proud of. It’s not all your fault , you relied on someone that was mistaken, or dumb.[/QUOTE]
Show me evidence of your claims and I will say okay, but the truth is neither of us have pictures of the cell to know what it was for sure just word of mouth so it’s all whatever.
A fuel cell will be mandatory with a 22-gallon (U.S.) maximum. Fuel cell must have a minimum of eight inches (8?) ground clearance. Fuel cell must be equipped with at least two (2) protective straps completely around the cell. Fuel cell must be mounted securely behind the rear axle of the car. Cars must have a minimum 1/8? steel plate, or similar strength aluminum plate, between fuel cell and rear end. A similar plate at the rear of the fuel cell is recommended. All cars must have safety bar at the rear of the fuel cell. At a minimum, all fuel cell configurations must include a rubber type cell in a steel container.
